Griefing

Greetings Sosaria!

Since I have been here (late October) I have continuously seen people on the forums and IRC mis-use the word 'griefing' and/or 'grief' whenever something bad happens to them or someone else. I recently talked about this in another thread but realised not a lot of folks would've seen it in there. So, I decided to grab that post and put it here for all to see more easily.

I hope that this clears some things up for people, as well as encourages correct use of the word. For the record, I'm not inventing my own definition as some folks seem to, this is how it is.

Please see below:

I'd just like to clarify the use of the word "griefing".

It's an over (and incorrectly) used word by a lot of people here and elsewhere.
Griefing is when the person performing the action is doing so with the intent to cause grief. Using intended mechanics to gain an advantage is not griefing.

Examples of griefing:

-Repeatedly killing someone for no benefit, ie. Killing deathrobe char over and over.

-Blocking someone in so that their only option is to use help-stuck.

-Luring monsters on to an afk character with no intent to loot or trick them in some manner to your benefit.

Example of legitimate gameplay:

-Taking advantage of a weakness in house security and looting.

-Killing a character for loot, kill count, red status or fun.

-Stealing item(s) from someones pack.

If griefing were simply whenever someone felt grief, every noob that got PK'd or stolen from would be able to cry and sulk and use that word.
Which as we know just isn't the case!

'Risk vs Reward' is a large reason we're all here. Else we would all be playing on trammel, or wow, or some single player no risk easy mode game

Jimmy the Hand
Night Master, The Mockers

I consider anything that gives me grief to be griefing.

You're mis-using the term See above.

Well, Oh-Great-Owner-Of-The-Absolute-Truth, I think that "grief" is open to interpretation.

For me, grief is anything that affects the enjoyment of other's gaming experience.

Now, you mention examples of griefing and of "legitimate" gameplay. I think you got it wrong there too. ALL of them are "legitimate" forms of game play. All are perfectly within the rules and possibilities of a Felucca based shard, so none are "illegitimate" or illegal.

The difference hinges in how the "victim" takes the action performed upon him. Does he cry about it? Or does he accept it and try to learn/improve/get even?

"Grief" is not about the action. It's about the victim.

I grieved last night when i was afk in Minoc and forgot my silver longsword or katana was in my low level pack
I had it a whole few hours...just blurted out id buy it back but no response, so went out to find another...was i griefed? nah did i grieve? yup, but that is part of the game so I said to myself...damn you got me this time...better pay more attention in the future

So you're saying that, for example, a PK who interrupts someone farming is a griefer. I'm sorry but it's just not how it is.
A "griefer", is most definitely someone who's sole purpose behind their action is to cause grief. Nothing more, nothing less.

Disagree. Strongly.
It's an overused term that lets trammy cry babies validate their feelings of losing at the game.

Well put.

As Pirul said.. its not about the actions at all in my mind.

I see it 100% as the WHY. Why are they doing whatever they are doing. If they are doing it because they find joy in RUINING other people's time/fun/enjoyment/entertainment... etc.. that is griefing to me. They are doing whatever it is(killing, stealing, stalking, tormenting, luring mobs, etc) not for pixel gains, rewards, or anything of value in game... but ONLY to get some real jollies, boner, or high off of making someone else mad, quit, rage, etc. In other words, they are sociopaths.

My take anyway! Go to hell griefers!

That's what I said. Not what Pirul said :/

"The intent behind the action".

Read his post. Its his very last line.. thus I said as he said. Come on now. Sorry if you said it too. The point remains the same!

I suppose because the game allows you to steal and murder and loot someone's home, you somehow believe a term must be used differently as part of the validation of ruining experiences.

@Talon Karde Pirul was stating that in his opinion, griefing is all about how the victim percieves it and it's not about the intent behind the action.

Whereas both you and I stated that it is griefing when their intention is to cause grief.

To go off what you said...

You are correct. Those are legitimate forms of gameplay. However, you can play that way and still be a greifer. Its about WHY you are doing those things. If you are killing a character to get his loot. AWESOME.

However, we all know there are many people that steal, kill, or take advantage of noobs for nothing more than to be a complete douche. They do it to laugh, make fun, and hopefully make them not want to play anymore. They do it again and again to continue to torment such a player. That is griefing in my mind. Because they aren't doing it for a challange(a good PvP fight), or loot, or bragging rights, or leaderboards.. nothing... other than to be a prick and find joy in ruining their time playing the game how they want to play it.

Then I agree with you!

Haha! I'm glad we got there!

Negatory.

I believe the term should be reserved for griefing.
I do not believe the term should be thrown around when someone is murdered, stolen from, or looted.

Those are all intended mechanics. If you are upset by that, even grieving, that's cool!
To call someone a 'griefer' because they bested you in an open world player versus player sandbox game to their benefit, is not cool.
That is simply using a negative term towards someone else to make yourself feel better.

"He's a griefer", or, "I was griefed". Instead of the more appropriate "He beat me at that part of the game".

For anyone who disagrees, I invite you to google search the words "griefing meaning".

Then, read the numerous preview texts of each link. You will find that the world agrees with my definition, as it is the correct use of the word.

I don't kill, steal, loot, or intentionally go for new players but they gotta learn somehow or else later on they might be subject to a much larger, and worse outcome than they would have when learning as a new player and it happening. I was rez killed, house looted, stolen from, ect. All of that taught me to be more cautious, aware, and more careful. Wether it was adding more security to my little house, or adding more hot keys to fight back and/or recall out.. what makes a player great is by learning from the passed and bettering themselves.


All in all I agree with this post. Alot of people throw this term around like the paraders throwing candy to the children on the sides of the road.

Griefing is the act of chronically causing consternation to other members of an online community, or more specifically, intentionally disrupting the immersion of another player in their gameplay.

Right on!

Sorry Pirul you are wrong. As JimmytheOh-Great-Owner-Of-The-Absolute-Truth explained, you have to google search the words "griefing meaning -wikipedia".