It was made apparent that the fencing skill paralyzing blow only is lasting for 2 seconds instead of the normal four. After this there was a rather heated exchange over whether this should stay or be moved to the OSI given amount of 4. To be honest, I do not know enough to say what is or is not overpowered; however some of the people here do and thought it would be good to have a basic discussion on this so long as it remains civil. I will put all the relevant information on here I can find to make things easier on everyone. Please note I searched through publishes 5 (Renaissance begins) to 16 (publish before Age of Shadows). I have used the most recent publish for every detail: if it was changed it was not in the notes. http://www.uoguide.com/Publish_5#Two-handed_Weapons Paralyzing Blow lasts 4 seconds. It is only useable with a 2 handed weapon. Once paralyzed the opponent will be unable to defend and the paralysis will not break until the duration ends even if damage is taken. A paralyzing blow can not happen to someone under the effects of a paralyzing blow. http://www.uoguide.com/Publish_13#Special_Hits All two handed special hits have their chance to activate from anatomy. The function for this is Anatomy/4, at GM anatomy you have a 25% chance to do a special attack. http://www.uoguide.com/Publish_5#Two-handed_Weapons For comparison I will list the other special attacks as well as their effects: Swordsmanship - Concussive Blow - Target's intelligence is halved for 30 seconds; you can not be hit by a concussive blow while you are under the effects of one. Macing - Crushing Blow - The target is hit for double damage, only applies to true maces. http://www.uoguide.com/Publish_5#Wrestling_Moves I will also list the wrestling moves for comparison as the stun punch is very similar. Wrestling moves require 10 stamina to preform whether there is a hit or miss. Also, once a successful hit is made, another wrestling move can not be used for 10 seconds. Wrestling moves require 80 wrestling and another skill, the chance to perform a move increases as the relevant skills increase. I have not found an explicit formula for the chance to perform a move. Stun Punch - requires 80 anatomy - Same effect as a paralyzing blow from a fencer, 4 second stun. Disarm - requires 80 arms lore - Removes the target's weapon and places it in his pack. Now just some basic math. The formula for attacking a target, as I understand it, is (skill+50)/(2*(targetskill+50)) meaning 2 characters of equal skill have a 50% chance to hit each other. Because of this, at max anatomy giving us a 25% chance to do a special attack; on average we can expect 12.5% of hits to trigger a special attack given an equal skilled opponent. In addition, in terms of raw damage, fencing is rather light do to macing getting crushing blows and axes gaining 30% damage at gm lumberjacking (http://www.uoguide.com/Publish_13#Lumberjack_Damage_Bonus). However, saying that the spear may have other uses it is more suitable for given its special attack in other combinations that I know nothing about which makes it overcome this short coming even with it only having a 2 second stun as opposed to the given 4. Now as I have stated I am not knowledgeable enough in pvp, pve, etc to claim what is or what is balanced; as far as I am concerned that is for the people in the fancy hats (the server admins) to decide. I hope though that people can contribute to this thread to give a better overall picture to the admins so that a decision can be made.
thanks for the work. Never had a fencer so I don't know. but sure appreciate the effort you have put in to make this a great thread :}
I have yet to pvp on this shard but from what I remember from OSI the special moves did not hit near as often as I would have liked making the 4 seconds balance out with frequency. Does the special move seem to proc frequently? If so then that could easily make this ability OPed at 4 seconds and possible 2 for that matter.
Thanks for the exceptional research Ganyon. All valid points. We are currently in the middle of making some changes to special weapon hits, how they layer and their precise application. That said one thing that I have personally believed was that OSI dropped the ball on balancing these aspects of combat during the Renaissance era. With the advent of trammel the level of time spent addressing player vs player combat issues was drastically reduced, so they were happily tossing in whatever they thought was appropriate. Which of course resulted in imbalanced combat to a degree and a mass exodus to trammel. So our goal here is to take the combat from the Renaissance era, that we all agree was fun, and simply balance it to exist in a felucca only world. This could result in slight changes to the activation rates, duration's, damage, and special attack layering. However these changes should be even across all weapon skills, not just applied to a single skill. Note: As the resident expert on the economy, take my statements on combat mechanics with a grain of salt.
This is why I am coming to this server plus the small stone tower. I remember being able to actually kill mages with a long spear. Now we are going to need lumberjacking/fencing to have the paralyzing blow? Im not a fan of what came after UO:R but I will give this server a shot before judging it. If anything I can always go back to UOSA which is over powered by mages. VIVA FENCING! Black Guards(B^G) Sonoma Hope to see you here
You do not need Lumberjack and fencing for a paralyzing blow. Lumberjack only gives a damage boost to axes.
You guys have a lot of work ahead of you if you want to balance all classes, if you nerf dexxers to much everyone will play mages and if you nerf mages to much then dexxers will be the majority. Thing is in this Era mages can wear armor so that made them more of a challenge to dexxers. Limiting weapon skills to a lower level damage & abilities may result in people playing more mages then dexxers. As of right now Stun last longer then para blow so one of them needs to change rather it be longer para blow or shorter stun time. Plus you have to account dexxers are more of a solo class then anything, Mages can travel in groups and sync dump so you don't want to nerf weapon skills to bad. Just a little Piece of advice, I'm intrigued to see if you guys can balance all classes and rise to the occasion that osi, uosa or hybrid could not achieve.
One thing that is always fixed about paralyze in other games is chain stunning. I think it is the dumbest thing ever. I say increase the para back to 4 but grant that person immunity for x seconds after stun. My last death on OSI was 3 fencers chain stunning me. This can still occur with the 2 second timer. A single 2 second timer hit I barely notice... but i have landed 4 straight for 8 total seconds.... get where I'm going?
This change will be made to the fencing special ability for two-handed weapons of the class, though this may or may not be included in the next patch. I may be able to squeeze this in but there are higher priority changes in line for the next patch. Regardless, this will come to see publish.
The last line is the issue i have with this special ability. The person stunned should be immune from stuns for at least x seconds. BTW I am building a fencer, i just think it is unbalanced if it chain stuns.
Perhaps you may of read the patch-notes quote wrong, but it specifically states that a person who is under the affect of a stun/paralyzing blow cannot be struck with that affect again until the original affect wears off. So no, you will not be able to "stack" stuns or paralyzing blows from fencing. I agree, allowing such tactics would be highly unbalanced. Edit: Re-reading the post it seems you may be speaking about the potential chance for such abilities to re-apply themselves immediately after the original affect ends. That would technically be possible, but the chances for this to occur are not very high at all.
That is correct, but I have done that 4x with as little as 40 fencing. So, even with the 2 second timer, I still extended my stun to 8 seconds total. Also, if you have a group of fencers, good luck getting out of that mess. The instant it wears off you are almost guaranteed another paralyzing hit. That ends up with multiple users needing to replace keyboards and mice, and possible monitors. People need a window of freedom. I remember my exact death, north of Brit by the small rock formation. I was CoM and they were TB. I had my best gear on with vanquishing war axe w/ parry and the 3 fencers had me stuck there, they alternated because when one was low he would back away and wait, as the other 2 finished me off. This was the last time I was on, I didn't like how UO was evolving and went out for one last hurrah, took a few down but they got me.
Paralyze itself is not OP but when it is chained it is. I can pull consecutive chains with the 2 second timer and it extends for as long as it hits, t hat is OP.
Honestly, you get hit 3v1 by any class or grouping of classes and you should be done. Doesn't matter if they para slap you 3x, you're going to die anyway. We could also come in with three macers and stop you in your tracks forcing you to chug pots to move every tile. Although I do agree a brief immunity post-paralyze would be nice, I don't think it's necessary for balance here. Unless of course the %25 chance or whatever is actually higher than that, in which case it would be a problem. I think all 'special' moves should have a very slim chance of <=10%, but that's all opinion.
You get paralyzed by one fencer and the others can catch up in 4 seconds to keep it going. A macer hits me, i can chug a pot and get out of there. Either keep it 2 seconds or add a post paralysis immunity timer after a 4 second stun. You must be thinking I stand toe to toe 3v1 which is ridiculous.
ehh wulver, thats an untrue assumption. been playing uor for quite some time now and have never seen this work successfully, ive seen a few dexxers try it , but most ive ever seen was 2 back to back from 2 different guys, and that was luck cause they landed them wrong, and a small pause like wtf, we did it!---then i got away. i play a fencer and they dont land as often as u think they do, perhaps they might land more vs. a dexxer with no kind of wrestle, but most of us try not to fight dexxers spear to spear. if i was u, and ill do the same, is if u see 3 dexxers running together and are enemies, Kal Ort Por, cause u gunna die anyways.
Yes, I would def not fight 3v1. I'm just saying, when those para blows line up, you better hope you aren't on the pointy end. Maybe it is just me vs monsters but I've seen the razor spam for para blow reach x3 on multiple occasions.
