Well since our last discussion got mysteriously moved to "trash talk" I'll just restart the thread.... though we clearly see where the opinions of the PKs/PvPers go... Into the trash bin.... Link to old thread: viewtopic.php?f=23&t=485 I think the current Stat loss system is too harsh and prevents people from pursuing a certain kind of playing style-- the murder. Current system: Stat loss at 5 short term counts Red name at 5 long term counts short term counts take 8 hours of in game time to burn off long term counts take 40 hours of in game time to burn off For those who are not sure about stat loss is -- Stat loss mean when a red rezs with 5 or more short term counts he loses a percentage (up to 20%) of all his stats and skills. I think this system is way to harsh. This system prevents people from actually playing the game. I DO think reds should have a penalty for their crimes, that makes sense, however I feel that the shard should support actually playing the game. Currently if I go out one night for a few hours and kill 6 people, I will then have to spend 2 FULL days of not playing the game in order to have him back at 0. That, in my opinion, is excessive and should be examined. I think the point of this shard and of UO and of any game is to support players who PLAY the game. Whether or not you agree with HOW murder's play the game, we shouldn't hold to a systems that restricts people form actually playing this game. That's why I offer some of the following alternatives to the current system. Any one of these alternatives would support people continuing to play the game. For instance if there was a gold buy out, then PKs would have to spend time in game farming gold. If there was a weekly event where people could safe rez, blues and pks a like would have weekly battle at the chaos shrine. The simplest fix would be reducing the penalty times by half. In doing this PKs will still have the penalty for murdering, but they will be able to play the shard and interact with people more, and would have to spend LESS time sitting in their house afk, interacting with noone. I suggest any one of the following: Cut the time for burning counts in Half (4hrs shorts/20hrs longs) Make is so that counts burn regardless of whether you are logged in or not Have a weekly event at chaos shrine where reds can safely rez w/o penalty at chaos shrine for example Give the reds the ability to buy out of stat with gold I am open to anyone's ideas, however I strongly feel the current system is too harsh.
i for one Approve of the Current System Current system: Stat loss at 5 short term counts Red name at 5 long term counts short term counts take 8 hours of in game time to burn off long term counts take 40 hours of in game time to burn off Nuff Said
I would not be upset if statloss were raised to a higher number of shorts, or had the hours to burn them shortened. However, as population increases, I would like to see it return to standard, if such a change were made. Murder deserves punishment befitting of the crime. If you want to murder without risk (aside from losing your currently held items), play a game that is just a killing spree like Halo, or join one of the many options on this shard for non-consentual or consentual PvP. Faction Order/Chaos (I understand the combination of the two may need work) Guilds at War Or, just take your counts and thrive on that feeling of knowing that when you go out to grief another player (murder), you are at risk of a sentence equal to that of the crimes you have committed. Killed a LOT of people? Take a LONG break. Only a few? Then you're still blue, like some PKs prefer to stay. I understand it is frustrating to die in stat and have that character 'out of the game' for a while, but such is the nature of crime and punishment. I am content to leave things as they are. I like my PKs red as they can be and I like them to take a vacation when I finally get payback. They have 9 other characters to play with here. It can't be that hard to timeout, log in on another and burn counts on the ghost while you sleep. I sleep, every night. Edit: I specifically disagree with the other three options posted as they are of absoultely no detriment to the player who was murdering other players. Buy off stat with gold = Gold is EASY to make and thus, that is not punishment unless it's exhorbitant, in the range of 500K+ per count. Rez at shrine will only turn into an exploit of the system where it's a game of who can bring the most tamers to protect their stat reds. If you can burn counts while you're not logged in, I want to be able to macro to 7xGM while I'm not logged in.
What if we had instead of Power Hour for skills we had Power Hour for gold/loot on boss spawning mosnters (ie.Blood els, ancients, balarons, dragons, gazers etc) However during this time PK (people with more than 5 long term counts) cannot be given counts. Again we would have to flesh out the details but that would be interesting...
Just so I can understand better... What is bringing on the need to change this? Is this current stat loss system more harsh than other shards? Is there some reason it needs to be changed here due to what other shards are doing?
Some shards have no stat loss... Hybrid has a lenient system for pks. OSI (the original uo shards) and UOsa (another successful freeshard) are not different. I am one who always believed the system was too harsh. That is my opinion. UOsa is different from here slightly, though, because you could run 3 accounts simultaneously, so PKs on that Shard always had one of their reds burning counts no matter which one of their toons they were playing. Also I see that crafters and PvMers seem to be getting all kinds of special content whereas PKs are getting dirt (as usual). I think they should throw the PKs a bone. I think it would be great to have a power hour where nobody takes short term counts and gold loot is double
I am not opposed to the current system in place for stat loss. However, Mutumbo, mentioned a weekly event possibility at the Chaos Shrine. I feel this event would be great fun for all us of to get our PvP fix. It could be scheduled just like the 1v1 Tourneys and CTF. As mentioned previously, this (chaos shrine event) will get players active on both sides. PKs will be there to res and fight on alternates, as well as blues trying to combat the PKs from getting a "get out of jail free card" (no stat loss res). Every week could be an epic group PvP battle of PKs vs Blues at the chaos shrine. PKs would be forced to work together to over power the blues and gain control of the shrine to save their friends. If the Blues gain control for the event, than PKs are forced to burn counts the hard way, and the added bonus of secure farming due to some reds being in stat. This just sounds like great fun.
So instead of deviating from the current stat loss system you're saying that having 3 accounts would be acceptable as well? This might be an easier solution to just add a 3rd account than to change the current stat loss system. HOWEVER The Chaos rez event is kind of intriguing. Maybe if the red has more of an "opportunity" style to rez through this Chaos shrine event instead of a "Given". They are rezzed and are able to participate in a 1v1 (or some sort of event) (maybe free use, supplied 1 of each reg, 1 gm wep, 1 of each pot,1 band aid) and have to fight for their ability to stay alive... if they win the battle they are teleported to a random spot in the world with nothing to figure out how to get home safely. if they lose, they go back into stat loss red and can try again next week.
I'll say it again: There are and have been shards with statloss comparable to what Ren has now, and they became overrun with murderers. History proves that statloss does not deter the majority of free shard players from PKing. Personally I'd take that as a basis for seeking harsher punishment; at any rate I don't see how anyone can argue that it calls for less. This is illogical. You aren't the only person playing the game. While your red is macroing off counts there will be players enjoying some time in your favorite hot spots, playing the game. Unless you have two stat PKs on separate accounts both dead at the same time, you have five other characters you can play the game with while macroing off counts. I'll point out for the sake of logic here that if, as you said, you go out one night for a few hours and kill six people, how much time did your victims lose? You can rob an hour's worth of PvMing plus time spent getting back to town, ressing, and re-equipping from someone in thirty seconds (which, for the record, is all the reward I think PKs need). I guarantee they don't enjoy that any more than PKs enjoy macroing off counts, but that's the game. Blaise has said it very well (and repeated himself several times) - if you can't handle the PK punishments, don't PK. Others will though, statloss or not, you can be sure of it. Statloss is one reason why some people hardly ever PK, but most just weigh the risk/reward and make their choice. They don't petition staff to make it easier for them. And again I agree with Blaise - if you think 'playing the game' can only mean murdering, you might want to try a non-stop killfest like Halo. Unless you just like shooting fish in a barrel, because you will get killed a lot more by your would-be victims in those games.
Why exactly are we looking for leniency on Reds? A: is it becauce the pvp on the server is so low that reds attacking people is the only pvp they get or, B:is it because certain PKs want lesser punishment for killing farmers? Option B, well do the crime- do the time is the ONLY answer for that. You want to grief others to reap the gains of their labors then you totally deserver the statloss penalty of the current system. If it's because of Option A then: there are 2 (maybe 3 if the 3rd aspect is active and maybe people jsut don't know about it) PvP systems in place, Factions (which I agree is not really up and hopping as much as many had hoped for, I'm sure there are those who blame A^T's faction guild for not participating much even though A^T has always been a PvE guild with PvP being a side interest ), and Order/Chaos (is this system up and running? I haven't researched it on this shard) Then there is Guild Warring. I just checked with my Gm and he says the system is indeed active. if you want the thrill of being able to jump or be jumped at any given time with a guild that you dispise with no statloss, get the GM of your guild to submit on their guild Stone for War. Great thing is you won't have to make a new toon to do it, as I beleive you can even be in factions and war a guild who is or is not also in factions. Towns will be fair game. If you still want to show your godliness by jumping poor unsuspecting farmers, well you still have your reds, but again Do the Crime- Do the Time. No leniency should be required for griefers. Yes, I know griefing is part of the system and should be, otherwise we'd be on a Trammel server, but don't go screaming unfair, when you clean up about 20k + a pop from defensless farmers in less than 2 minutes a kill then have to take statloss when you finally get brought down. As far as 3 accounts, if you chose to fill up one of your accounts with crafters to make a gripload of money and can't spare the time to burn your reds counts, that was a decision you (in general) made. That was the play style you chose when creating your toons. Don't ask for special boons because you do not wish to take time away from making money. The farmers the reds are killing have to stop farming and making money everytime reds are on the prowl.
Who insulted anyone? I think its cool ppl like the extra loot / no short term count hour thing or the chaos shrine weekly event idea! Those could be really fun!
OMG, check this shit out.... How about you can only get a count, if there's a living witness? Perhaps only at night, to keep it tame, but still...living witness is an interesting concept to me. Dunno how well it would pan out.
Interesting idea, would definitely encourage multiplayer activity (i.e. farming in pairs or groups [something I know blaise loves ])
I agree with mutombos ideas, it makes 100% complete sense. Preferably that counts burn off when not logged in on your red character so you can play on that account so the account is not used up just sitting there doing nothing and being wasted. Should be wiggle room since staff only allows 2 accounts.
How is burning counts while not logged in punishment for the crimes? Leaving the account logged in over night and playing the other four characters on the account during the day, can't be terribly difficult.....I know I do it.
