Regarding these ultra-pro PK discussions

I recommend the following commentary on the history of UO, Trammel, and PKs written by Lum the Mad in December 2004:

http://www.brokentoys.org/2004/12/18/th ... ma-online/

[The dead link 'a touch angry' to which the story refers can be found here - http://web.archive.org/web/200501260721 ... efers.net/ - under the Dec. 17 entry 'WHINING ABOUT GRIEFERS (OR "THE INTERNET IS SERIOUS BUSINESS, GUYS")'

Warning - he wouldn't be in favor of these blue-crippling suggestions being tossed around lately. So if you want super-PKs and don't want to hear anything to the contrary, don't bother reading.

No one has the final word on this (except the server owners), and no matter what's said there will always be some disagreement (for example, Lum did not change the mind of the griefers.net author he linked). But I definitely want more people sitting on my side of the fence than the other, and I hope some people read this and come to the right conlcusion.

A nice read!

Would read again.

They avoided PvP because of the loss of stats and the risk, hence increasing grief.

If reds could fight openly, they would. You could log on your faction characters and get a fun fight over it, you might die on your bard ONCE in a while. ERMAGAHD, but then you get to fight a fair group fight vs. the small group of reds. PK's were going to play that style regardless, because it's a part of the game. The article makes it sound like you didn't buy the game knowing if you leave town you can be attacked and lose your stuff. False assumption. PK's resorted to cheapshots like that because they couldn't risk dying in a fight. I've seen how it works on other shards, if PK's don't have stat- they play just like any other PvP char, they look for a challenge, a worthy adversary, and don't waste time on miners. Really outside of Goon, who has been killing miners?

The underlying assumption that people will use a lessening of stat to go on a rampage of crafter chars is completely false, and I feel it has taken away from a lot of this conversation when the blue side is holding their ears going LA LA LA LA LA LA.

I think it should be left alone. What are you guys thinking, lol. Seriously dumb idea to start treating pks as a valid class that needs perks. That system is there to calm you hooligans down.

Really? You think that PKing will decrease without Stat? Or am I reading that wrong?

PKs are PKs because it's the easy kill. They don't go around picking fights with players who have a chance to win, in most instances.

That's what the MULTIPLE options for consentual combat exist for. You don't need to go red to fight in Factions, O/C or Guild Wars.

3/4 of the combat options do not have harsh penalties because EVERYONE involved signed up for a fight. Murdering, YOU are the only one who picked the fight and the victim should not be punished by being forced to take it.

If it were so terribly hard to kill blues, how come I've got guildmates in chat calling out that they just got murdered nearly every day?

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See your sig.

Yet again, LALALALLALALALA.

Sysmessage "You have recently been in combat and cannot escape so easily." for 30 seconds after attacking, or being attacked. Works in factions, and guild wars too. Universal. You have to use your legs to run away and hide, more risk. You have to teleport through dungeons and put up a wall of stone on a bridge. Makes gameplay way more creative. Tried and true system on one of the most successful UO free shards.

If a farmer is quick and casts recall upon seeing a red name, or a faction char sees 15 enemies coming, if he casts recall AND target cursor comes up before they attack. he can still recall out. Just forces people to play the game instead of moaning. Leave stat, but add this. For all PvP.

No. But thank you for sharing your opinion on how to make it easier for YOU to get kills. I don't want those kills and I don't want to fight you or run on my bard. That's why I am a mage.

Doesn't work like that in any case, Factions or otherwise and I prefer it stay that way. I'm not 'in combat' until I fight back. I'm just being attacked. The Recall cooldown is for MUTUAL combat. There is nothing mutual about you deciding to kill non-PvP chars.

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Saw Radagast in town 2 days ago.

I believe that yaadood is either immune to logic or will lie to try and get what he wants, but I'll poke holes in his post for the sake of other readers.

In other words, people only griefed because it was too dangerous to fight fair with statloss and all. Well.... this doesn't need a rebuttal, I'm sure no one believes this rubbish. They griefed because they could, plain and simple. Anyone who knows anything about the human race at all is aware that people tend to simply do whatever it is they can get away with. It's also easier than fighting fair, for sure, but that doesn't mean what you want it to mean.

Actually that's pretty much how it was, like I said in another thread. Ultima wasn't marketed as 'A great place to get your newb ass killed for the amusement of our veteran players'. It wasn't even marketed as 'Hardcore Player versus Player combat 24/7' (which wouldn't have been accurate anyway as chopping down new players doesn't constitute PvP). It was sold as an immersive fantasy world where you could do almost anything, and if new people signing up were aware that player-killing was part of the game, they still could not have known to what ridiculous extremes people were going to take it beforehand. No one knew. Even the creators of the game did not predict it.

This from the guy that bragged up Hybrid as an example of a server without stat loss....? Anyone who has ever played on Hybrid knows your analysis is the biggest load of crap imaginable. Anyone who hasn't played on Hyrbrid - go there, create an account, and putz around in and out of town as a newb for a few days to find out what people really do when there are no rules. See who's telling the truth here.

he also isnt in factions anymore and isn't pvping. Hell a simple fix to sync dumping but I have a feeling they are putting it off to keep cr3w from coming back. Because then it would make it easier then it already is to kill you guys so for some reason it's on extended hold. pathetic. Don't worry we will kill you guys and grief you guys the way the mechanics are now, but you guys are definitely wrong on all your subjects when it comes to what makes a server highly populated. Hence whey the server population has stayed the same since it went live and even went down in population for awhile.

Also if you guys are wondering what the Admins were going for when they made this server it says right there on the home webpage.

Our goal is to provide our players with an authentic Renaissance shard that is free from the influences of trammel and infused with the thrilling challenge that has made Ultima Online one of the greatest games of all time.

What do you think the challenges are in felucca... not being able to make carpentry bods? Gtfo, if I knew along time ago that this server was gonna be in favor toward Blaise and his group I wouldn't of even invested time here. Now all you're doing is give more reasons to pk and grief you guys. I just put all A^T guild on ignore so i don't have to read all their hypocritical complaints and crying. I would gladly take a Ban from forums if A^T served the same fate for doing the same stuff but we know that will never happen to A^T just me.

The only thing I'm a hypocrit about is dragging personal shit into trash talk, and I accept that. I don't feel it was appropriate of me, but I did it. Sorry about that Solar, I am a hypocrit for crossing that line.

As it pertains to the game, 0 Statloss for PKs is about as Trammel as you can get without actually having that facet. You are basically asking for NO RISK farming of players.

I never once in my life heard cr3w complain about statloss.

PS: I've never played Hybrid but I can only assume the population is high because of one thing and one thing alone:
http://www.uogstore.com/hybrid_store/

GTFO with that.

kthxbai.

You guys need to hug it out.

Its no fun seeing every thread end up with you two taking jabs at each other.