*Now w/more DOUCHEBAGGERY!* Friday Night Fights #21 (2-12-16 @ 11PM EST)

I'm not *quite* sure what you mean here but I do regret that my statement might not have conveyed what I meant it to (side experiment: imply that a woman would falsely accuse rape and see if she gets angry). If I had spent more time on my reply, it would have gone something like this:

The staff has deemed it fit to create a Code of Conduct for the shard to ensure that this shard is welcoming to all players. Without the Code of Conduct, it's easy to imagine a scenario wherein the shard becomes full of assholes (not in-game assholes, for which I think my track record is pretty clean about not getting bent out of shape when "felucca" happens). I've seen it on other shards' forums and IRC channels. I would not like to see it here. So, if someone says something racist, or sexist, or anything else specifically targeted in the Code of Conduct, it shouldn't be "petty" to call that person out for his or her behavior.

But, I see now that it was maybe not worth it to say anything since some people think it's just a big old joke to imply that someone who's being uncool must be a girl or have a bleeding vagina or something. Believe it or not, that does not create a welcoming environment for women players. That directly goes against the staff's wishes, which are that UOR be a place for people from all different types of communities to come together and enjoy this cool computer game. And on a personal note, it gets tiresome to have to read that kind of shit over and over again. So I spoke up this time. Fuck it.

I think most people who play here are all right!

If he wants to be taken seriously he does....

You're right that these are his forums and this is his shard and he can ultimately do whatever he wants with both. That doesn't make him right. It says right on the home page of the website this is a shard "without the influences of trammel" yet seemingly everytime anyone from TT does something that certain people don't like, but is fully within the stated rules, we are threatened with bans. As napo stated earlier TT is far from the only person/s to have ever interrupted a player run event, in fact the very person that was accosted during this fight night has done easily his fair share of this exact same thing as well as some of the other people whining in this thread, yet strangely they weren't threatened with bans.

Here are only a few examples of things TT members/friends haven't been threatened with bans for. House killing people that were house killing us, handing out murder counts to people casting field spells and uncontrollable summons or killing a player at a player run event. This is only 3, there are plenty more.

This may be hard, but honestly try and think and put yourself in our situation where you commited an in game action, even though this action was a dick move sure, it was completely within the rules to do so, that the first action that is taken is "if you don't stop doing this, your accounts will be banned". What reasonable person wouldn't be incredulous at this?

He did'nt say you would be banned for killing someone at an event, he said you would be banned if you logged on solely for the purpose of ruining someones event i think there is a difference. Honestly take a step back TT always cry's foul you need to ask yourself is it everyone else or maybe its you?

I would also point out if you wanted to kill bart why didnt you partake in the event to do so?

This isn't remotely comparable to you, since as you note, Vlar isn't willingly allowing you to wander around Stormhold. SL characters, on the other hand, are recognized by everybody. Every disruption has been done by a dank nugget character, and last week the offending dank nugget spectated for 30 minutes with another dank. The characters weren't banned because Vlar was trying to be hospitable towards SL due to their past complaints about being treated unfairly for... disrupting. Every time SL characters have done something at the event, Vlar would get reassured it was a misunderstanding, a one-off, or whatever and so they would not get banned. After one SL character rushed in and killed fekk in the middle of his duel for some easy faction points, Vlar friended me to the house so I could help him quick ban any would-be offenders. Next week, a dank nugget rushed in as my duel was starting and I pre-emptively brought up the "I ban thee" cursor, but someone already rapid fire banned him. Napo spent the next week in IRC writing volumes about how Stormhold is a TB event now because Pax is friended, a dank got banned for no reason, that all SL/TT are now prohibited from the event, etc. I can't even stress how much bullshit this is -- two TT characters (Lib and Drak) competed in the event that night, and napo sat there unmolested on his blue alt (DJ Bleats) that everyone knows is him for the entirety of the tournament. After all SL's protesting, Vlar didn't blanket ban dank nuggets or TT characters.

But man, if you knew only what's been said in this thread, you'd think either SL/TT were 133t haxors who hax their way off ban lists and hate Stormhold, or that Vlar is a whiny newb who never learned how to ban characters from his house. The reality is in fact quite different: SL whined so much about a single dank being banned, that Vlar has been really accommodating towards them. And in response they take advantage. Case in point: Punt was the dank nugget who killed bart during sudden death. He was also there on his blue character. Vlar banned his blue character and Punt, feigning ignorance, went into IRC asking why he was banned... and Vlar unbanned him.

This has nothing to do with people whining about big bad PKs (as Disco suggests), and everything to do with Vlar trying to act in good faith and one group repeatedly exploiting him for it. He is right to feel burned. Can you imagine if Vlar did ban the two dank nuggets the moment they stepped into Stormhold? You can bet your soul that napo would have been screaming his head off in IRC for days about how unfair and biased Vlar is.

Now I don't think Punt has anything against Vlar. I don't think anyone should be banned from the shard for this either, or that this requires any staff intervention at all. That's way over the top. Disrupt if you want. But it is super annoying to make Vlar feel like he can't ban any of you without hearing a bunch of complaints, and then when he finally gets pissed and drop the hammers, y'all act like you guys never gave a shit in the first place. Pick a persona.

I completely potato. I rate potato/potato. I will potato again.

The guy said something about guys in the thread being girly and wearing panties. Yeah, it's a little sexist, but no more than say Hans and Franz were on SNL years ago. It does seem a little petty to me to use that as ammo for your forum debate and invoke the code of conduct. I've been called nigger, faggot, and niggerfaggot enough times on this server (and twice by sweet bart) and never had staff intervene. I remember being specifically told that because we were winning battles in factions against CoM, they were under a justifiable amount of distress to be allowed to use racial slurs in game. To be exact Scribe/Gimp had called me a nigger and wished my family to die in a car fire. I could go on for quite a bit like this but my intention isn't so much about keeping score but instead convey that while hate speech is undesirable and does happen on UO:R I don't think DiscoD's post really qualified as anything other than mildly sexist.

And he probably did find it petty that you cherry picked from his post to say he wasn't being PC, when what he was trying to say is people should be mature and accept that pking happens in game. Replying with something about rape was some epic foot-in-mouth however, I will agree.

I think the real question is... How do you feel about tater tots?

Well you're talking about quite a few different people, right? Napo has one persona and Punt another.

There are probably some people that would talk their way off the ban list just to kill bart a second time. There are probably some people like Xeg and Napo and Lib that wouldn't interrupt a player event. If you want to blanket-ban SL people from a tournament that's totally within the rules of the game. But I would expect to hear some justifiable complaints from people that didn't do anything. Keeping in mind also that a GM creates statues that can be turned in for platinum as rewards for this event. Is it too much to expect a host to have a ban thee macro and pay attention to his own event?

I made my John Galt character just to compete in some of those tournaments because it wasn't a friendly environment for SL, and we hadn't disrupted anything in those days. Lib did the same thing. When we show up to the event lobby or a neutral ground we are shit talked and heckled by salty guys that know we can't do anything to them on those grounds. I mean a horse named SLlovesBBC is practically the mascot for CTF and tournaments after being present for a year and a half at them.

Anyways it's a fallacy of composition to assume that if Punt ebolted bart at a tournament that Xeg must also be doing it because she's part of SL as well. When Cynic loots a house we don't say Avery did it too because they're both in O^S.

Man.... trying to understand all this drama and who hates who is more complicated than understanding who all the factions fighting in Syria are and why they are fighting each other..... and i mostly understand THAT. But for some reason I'm in the mood for some tater tots and other potato based products.

The people you mentioned may not disrupt events. But those that do have always used dank nugget characters which provides some cover as to who did what (as Punt proved). Then when people pre-emptively ban those characters since they don't know who is who (like your dank last year), napo goes off complaining about how unjust it is. So then Vlar doesn't ban them when they spectate. And then it happens again. Napo may not disrupt events, but he certainly facilitates the process. The fact is Vlar could have prevented the disruption last week by banning the two dank nuggets when they first showed up, but he would have certainly gotten an earful for it.

Anyways, I don't think Vlar really means to blanket ban all TT characters forever. He's probably just going to keep danks out, and vet each TT character.

I would be curious to know if anyone that was at this fight night in question, genuinely had their night ruined. Like I just want to logout and go cry myself to sleep ruined or tear my laptop in half angry? That certainly wasn't my intention if that was the case for anyone in attendance.

I don't want to speak for Bart, but I would have a hard time believing he was honestly super upset about this. Maybe a, "oh come on, that was a dick move and punt's an asshole" but surely to God he wasn't raging and/or crying about it.

@Vlar: I was not even logged in to UO when this happened. Your ass is showing. You owe me an apology, if that isn't clear.

I don't disagree with Dank Nuggets or even SL getting blanket banned. I don't think "pick a persona" is really a valid critique, as we're not a single person. Punt and Tuna will disrupt events for fun. I will sit in VoiP and tell them I don't approve of it. Most of SL will simply not care. I can't fault anyone except Chris for treating "Dank Nuggets" as a single entity.

This is absolute crazy talk. You've likely been chugging the koolaid for quite some time to come up with something this crazy.
I've been worried about the shard's health and overhunting to the point where I haven't PKed in a year and a half, despite the fact that PKing was practically all I did on OSI.
Look at your buddies though - they're out there slaughtering newbies all day every day, just look at the bounty bot.

If we actually wanted to hurt the shard, we would. You are completely insane if you think killing a single douchebag (who by the way in case you didn't catch this the first dozen times has crashed many, many events) at a tournament is "hurting the shard", you are a crazy person.

Just because neutrality is hard doesn't mean it's something that should be ignored.
Surely you can see the issue when Vlar hands out friendings to all of TB and they all go "time to get some rope".
Maybe you should take some time to ponder why we were some of the most generous patrons of Lib's tournaments even during that period where he disliked us and told us we were horrible people almost every day, but we are critical of the current tournaments. It's because they're a shitty environment for us, largely because the "other side" is composed of spiteful bitches salty about losing on the field. It's a BIG PROBLEM when something happens to them and not such a big deal when they do shit to us. This is the kind of setting that has driven us away from the tournaments, and why we don't really give a shit if someone wants to fuck with them.

Of course, the narrative that no one questions is that we are the "biggest assholes" on the server, so we're just told we deserve it when stuff happens to us. This narrative is largely pushed by that salty group of people, but they're much better at high school girl shit so we're getting killed on the narrative front. If you look at the facts though, it's other people that are the most prolific PKs (we hardly PK anyone, and when we do they're veteran players) it's other people running the crooked IDOC business with all of their duplicate forum accounts, and "ruining events" is hardly something exclusive to TT.
And yet here we are, being absolutely crucified for killing one guy, one time at a tournament.

It's also amazing to me that you can't point these things out without being accused of crying or screaming your head off. I guess it's to be expected by a group of people so threatened by conflict that even when people are being more or less civil, they have to spam about potatoes to try to distract everyone from the conversation.

Personally, I have no patience for high school shit, and no patience for pvp tournaments. All I'd like is some fights, which your side has done a woefully inadequate job of providing. I've never in all my years of gaming seen the population of a server form a giant alliance for the purpose of not fighting.

Don't forget your good times at the NBA Tournament: http://i.imgur.com/pgS1IRD.png


I know I haven't attended all events on the shard but if I'm not mistaken, bart is actually attending the vast majority in earnest, to participate. I think that pretty much negates any claims of "many, many events" being crashed by him. VoP started getting attacked when it was obvious that a number of them were TT/SL alts and considering how often they like to pay their hate forward into other players' alts, I found it comical that VoP was the target of attack.

Kind of curious also about the times bart did attempt to disrupt the Grimoire...was that before or after the ruleset was changed to exclude him for dominating?

I know that talking out of your ass is like 80% of what you do, but there was quite some time when we were called in practically every week because the google gang was trying to PK at every paws event that popped up. There's another time I remember I got yelled at by lib for "fighting at his tournament" because google and bart attacked me on the doorsteps and I put one of them down on the spot and chased the other into the sunset. Thanks for that lib.
Just look at the logic here - no one batted an eye at bart attacking roleplayer events because "TT alts were there" but for some reason it's a BIG PROBLEM that bart was killed once at a tournament? This is exactly what I was saying earlier - there are no sacred cows here.

Also, the NBA tournament is a good example of you acting like an asshole, thanks for bringing that up. Your behavior that day definitely soured a few people in our group on the server's player run tournaments, I can think of a couple of people who decided to stop supporting them after that.

Let me go ahead and stop you right there. VoP rallying for a hunt, is not a scheduled and well coordinated event. It's a happenstance occurrence at the whims of the great Jupiter. Getting yourselves attacked because of who the party is seeded with, isn't in the same vein as squatting in tournaments and taking cheapshot murder counts on your blue factioners. Same with Punt taking the cheap shot at the Summoner Sprints. These are apples and oranges you're comparing but I'll save expertise in talking out of one's ass for you, counselor.

"Getting yourselves attacked because of who the party is seeded with" is exactly what happened at the tournament.

No, actually it's not. One person got attacked, from what I'm hearing. They were surgically targeted during the final moments of their bout, right?

This is so far removed from a party of RPers getting attacked in the woods, it's fucking embarrassing that you would compare the two. Then again, keeping any modicum of self-respect is not something you folks are about these days.....or wait...

You're ignoring the scheduled paws events that were attacked.
You're ignoring that he attacked pvp tournaments, too.
You're basically ignoring half of what was said so that you can push your agenda.
Nothing new for you, really.

Oh right, and you're sitting here trying to justify that it's perfectly okay to attack roleplayers out doing events because it's "totally different" and that those rpers deserved it for consorting with TT alts. You've fallen so far, Blaise.



So the current argument for those keeping score at home, I feel a recap is necessary because Blaise is a master of deflection and dragging people off topic.
I am arguing that there are no sacred cows, that various groups of people have disrupted events and that there seems to be no consensus on which events are supposed to be off limits and which are not.
Blaise is arguing that the events disrupted in the past were justified in being disrupted.