Throwing one more punch at the dead STEALING horse.

I turned grey stealing from a red.

Is that right?

This is a joke right?

It's not the target it's the act.

In other words, the choices of others are not meant to excuse the choices you make.

It's one of many tests of virtues the game of Ultima was founded on.

You can attack and kill a murderer but can't steal from him/her. Odd.

UO is weird

Everlast said it with amazing grace and precision.

stealing from a known murderer and outlaw is still stealing.
it reflects on your character just the same as slipping a coin pouch out of a nobles pocket.

yes, agreed.

Yea that one surprised me too.

Would you still turn grey if you attacked them first? If you had a disarm thief for example?

When I used to play factions I had a disarm thief fencer and I can't remember going grey then.

Do you turn grey when stealing from a member of an enemy guild?

I don't know the answer to that.

Surely the "negative action" formula should be able to differentiate between innocents/PK's/warring guilds/grey characters.

Especially as if you're perma grey you can be attacked freely right? Unless I'm not comprehending the perma grey concept.

But if that's right that means that perma grey thiefs can be attacked by a PK (or anyone) but a thief isn't extended that liberty back of being free from consequences.

Yea your right @wylwrk UO is weird hahaha

Reported this as a bug months ago. Stealing here..... ugh

If stealing being a criminal act is based on the target and not the thief, it would be possible that stealing from a 'noble' is more virtuous than stealing from a red, depending on the actions of the noble and the red.. in this case, the act of stealing as a criminal or virtuous act can be blurred.. so then where would we draw the line that stealing is a criminal act?

Plus then you could have two thieves, one steal and turn gray, and the other instantly steal same item from the gray thief. And now you have a blue thief, who can call guards, and can't be attacked without the attacker turning criminal.

I think I prefer a world where stealing is always a criminal act.
Heck even stealing from monsters turns you gray.

I think thieves should be able to steal from young players.

no

You're misunderstanding. Stealing (on OSI) was an aggressive action, not a criminal action. Stealing from a blue (or container in town) was a criminal action.

There were 2 ways this was handled on OSI:

1.) Stealing is an aggressive action.
Blue thief steals from a red/grey player.
Blue thief stays blue, but flags "attackable" to red/grey player.
Blue thief is NOT perma.

2.) Stealing is NOT an aggressive action.
Blue thief steals from a red/grey player.
Blue thief stays blue. Red/grey player cannot attack thief without becoming a criminal.
Blue thief is NOT perma.


Compare that to the situation on UOR:
Blue thief steals from red/grey player.
Blue thief stays blue. Red/Grey CAN attack thief without becoming a criminal.
Blue thief IS perma (anyone can attack him now).

Seems there is a mutual misunderstanding as I wasn't talking about OSI, was just talking about stealing in general.
The original post says the thief turned gray stealing from a red.
I understood that to mean the thief was flagged as criminal for stealing from a red.
If a thief's steal is seen, the thief should always turn gray (criminal), IMO, regardless of who the victim is or what the item is.
As far as theft being aggression.. that is an entirely different discussion than what I thought this discussion was.

AFAIK, Stealing from a Red on OSI made you an aggressor to the Red. It did not tag you grey to everyone...

And it did not make you perma.

On UOR, even stealing from a monster that is a criminal will make you perma. Not sure what happens if you do this and are not part of the thieves guild. But there should be no way to become perma without also being a member of the thieves guild. There should also be no different outcome stealing from an NPC monster whether you are in the thieves guild or not.

Can @Mandevu weigh in on this?

Does stealing from an enemy guild member or "orange" turn you grey/perma?

As a great man once said:

The only thing Telamon hates more than warriors... is thieves & stealing!!

PS: History perfected!!

/sarcasm

yes

I'm new here but I want to throw in my 2 cents.

I hope this shard will consider making some changes in favour of Feluccan playstyles.

I hope thieving will be fixed so that stealing will not flag you if you steal from an enemy or murderer. I also hope 'true success' theft will be implemented. Maybe balance this further by making stealing take much more effort to raise.

I also hope that reds will be nurtured a bit more with some tweaks to their punishments, specifically permanent 15% stat loss and not being allowed in town.

However, there needs to be a balance or the Trammel playstyle players won't play here, and then murderers and thieves will have no one to target.