Armor, Shield, and Slayer Suggestions (Retitled)

After years of UO and DAOC, and then seeing what WoW did with armor crafting, I have always been of a mind that player crafted armor and weapons should be equal to all but the top tier drops.
So I can get behind any positive changes to armor... but I also respect Chris' dedication to a close to era accurate server.

My idea:
Valorite Runic made whatever should be almost as good as the top tier monster drop
But even regular GM made items should be better than what drops in most dungeons (non boss mobs)

The end result will be exactly the same and next week there will be a post saying:

So basically you want to increase the max AR rating for dexers. No matter what is done here, people will want most min-maxed armor for events, and the most cost effective high ar with best AR per dex-loss ratio.


There's a problem with dexers here alright, but in terms of armor it has more to do with the availability of high AR cheap leather requiring expensive runics to counter it and bring combat back to how it was on UOR. Allowing a 1-person 75 armor 0 dex loss tank is a silly proposal that's only going to benefit instance runners.

I love the way WoW handles player crafted items. I think its even better here. Players can craft around Fort level armor from just BarbedLeather and Valorite, and Runic Weapons are the best in the game. (PvE Slayers are really the only thing better and only for PvM)

The only thing Id suggest as a change to the armor system right now is this:
*Remove the AR bonus from Horned, Barbed, and Spined leathers from 100% meditate-able leather armor. Studded, and other 50% Med leathers, stay the same.
*Reduce the max durability of bone armor to almost criminal levels. Allow it to give plate level defense at 0 dexloss, but for a VERY short time.
(think gold tools/weapons/armor stuff from minecraft)

Invul Bone = AC 55 -- 0 dex loss
GM Parry = AC 75+ 0 dex loss
No gorget so far, but plate already only goes this far, and costs you 17 points of dex.

Perhaps negating the dexloss isn't the way to go. I would be just as happy to see heavy armor negating para blows or absorbing a mace's stamina damage. Large shields could stand to have a higher block rate and maybe some dragon breath reductions. Axe builds should also probably trump the spear. 200 point LJ > than 100 point fence.

200 point LJ is absolutely better than a spear, as far as I am away, LJ = highest DPS dexer in the game. It may not have same benefit in all situations like para blows in pvp etc.


If there's an armor that negates dragon breath, know what it will be used for? PKs will just put on a set before they run in and nuke your tamer while you farm. If you put it on and go out to farm dragons, the benefit will be negligable server-wide as still practically nobody would be dex farming... anything. HUGE benefit to PKs though.

.

According to the research here: http://uorforum.com/threads/weapon-damage.10139/page-1
All 200 point LJ builds come in behind the short spear, spear, and katana.

I also theorized large shields blocking some dragon's breath, not the armor, and I would probably throw a few points of dex loss onto the larger shields to further emphasize defense over offense. I also don't think some firebreath negation would change the tamer vs dexxer match up at all. A tamer has two blessed dragons that are going to wreck a dexxer, period.

Revised the first post to keep new people coming in up to date on current suggestions. This is a duplicate of the main post.

Armor Reworks.

1. Distinguish plate as heavy armor by adding an additional amount of armor equal to the dex loss penalty on each piece.
2. Allow the use of a runic hammer and a creature reagent on shields to add additional effects to shields.

A few examples of what possible enhancements might look lik...
% chance to negate katana para blow
% chance to negate mace stamina damage
% chance to negate concussion blow
% Physical/Elemental Resist Bonus
% Block Firebreath % (Heater Shields Only)

Any shield or piece of armor should only be able to hold 1 creature reagent enhancement. Thus an armor piece or shield could offer some fire resist, but then would be ineligible for any other modifiers. These enhancements are also dependant on the creature reagent, not the runic hammer. The runics however, could distinguish the level of the achievable enhancements.

Some more examples. (Pick one per list, not the entire list.)

Dull
43% chance to block a special attack
43% chance to block a special attack - 21% firebreath damage reduction
2% elemental damage reduction
+1 AR

Shadow
50% chance to block a special attack
50% chance to block firebreath - 25% firebreath damage reduction
4% elemental damage reduction
+2 AR

Copper
57% chance to block a special attack
57% chance to block firebreath - 30% firebreath damage reduction
6% elemental damage reduction
+3 AR

Bronze
64% chance to block a special attack
64% chance to block firebreath - 35% firebreath damage reduction
8% elemental damage reduction
+4 AR

Gold
71% chance to block a special attack
71% chance to block fire breath - 40% firebreath damage reduction
10% elemental damage reduction
+5 AR

Agapite
78% chance to block a special attack
78% chance to block fire breath - 45% firebreath damage reduction
12% elemental damage reduction
+6 AR

Verite
85% chance to block a special attack
85% chance to block fire breath - 50% firebreath damage reduction
15% elemental damage reduction
+8 AR

Valorite
92% chance to block a special attack
92% chance to block fire breath - 55% firebreath damage reduction
20% elemental damage reduction
+10 AR

Base Shield Reworks
To start, I would leave armor ratings on shields alone and instead look at each shields block chance at GM Parry.

Buckler -This isn't a shield. It's a dinner plate. Realistically, it's too small to block large weapons. Personally, I would put the buckler at a 15-20% block rate. THEN I would introduce a rare - buckler of reactive reflection. Ofc - those spells would only trigger 20% of the time due to the low block rate.

Wooden - Block chance 85% - Super high block rate. However, the shield should have low durability and be non-repairable.
Wooden Kite - Block Chance 80% - Super high block rate, but - the shield should have low durability and be non-repairable.
Bronze - Block chance 80% - Can be marked as a recall rune. Low durability but can be repaired.

Metal - Block Chance 70%
Metal Kite - Block Chance 60%
Heater - Block Chance 50%
A note on heater shields: As much as I would love to see the 'dragon shield' as a rare drop. Tamer's have very-not-rare blessed dragons. It only makes sense that in a world where dragons are so commonplace, that the inhabitants of said world would come up with a way to defend themselves against such creatures.

Order - Block Chance 65% - Can be marked as a recall rune. AR and elemental enhancements at 150%.
Chaos - Block Chance 65% - Can be marked as a recall rune. AR and elemental enhancements at 150%.

Runic Slayers
Using the same method of runic hammer + creature reagent, allow sub slayer weapons to be crafted. Slayer Quality dependant on runic hammer being used. All slayers created are equal to the runic hammers standard weapon output, ex...

Dull ---------- Durable Accurate + SUBSLAYER
Shadow ---- Durable Ruin Accurate + SUBSLAYER
Copper ----- Fortified Ruin Surpassingly Accurate + SUBSLAYER
Bronze ----- Fortified Might Surpassingly Accurate + SUBSLAYER
Gold -------- Indestructable Force Eminently Accurate + SUBSLAYER
Agapite ---- Indestructable Power Eminently Accurate + SUBSLAYER
Verite ------ Indestructable Power Exceedingly Accurate + SUBSLAYER
Valorite ---- Indestructable Vanquishing Supremely Accurate + SUBSLAYER

Crafting
The required creature reagents would be dropped by mini bosses such as the cave troll, and then also by bosses such as the dark one, azure wyrm, etc. Reagents drop at a similiar rate to pecuiliar meat. I would also use the old pagan reagents such as wyrm hearts and daemon bones. (Because there are quite a few of them to choose from and they are all asthetically pleasing.)

I would also require crafters to have GM Smith/Mage/Alchemy/ItemID to successfully imbue an item with a creature reagent.

Success rates - Shields - The base shield would be irrelevant to the process - Double click reagent, click runic hammer, click shield = 33% chance success rate to bind a creature reagent to a shield. Failure leaves the shield intact but wastes the reagent and a swing on the hammer.

Success rate - Slayers - Must be an exceptional runic weapon - Double click reagent, click runic hammer, click exceptional runic weapon = 33% chance success rate to bind a creature reagent to a weapon. Failure leaves the weapon intact but wastes the reagent and a swing on the hammer.

Economy
Runic hammers of all types would have value and lesser enhancements would be readily available and easily replaced. No blessed weapons or armor being added to the market. In the meantime, platemail would outclass bone in terms of AR, but it would still come with 17 points of dexterity loss.

Expected retail on a Gold-Slayer @ 10-15k per swing + 25-50k per creature reg = 105k - 195k (+10-45k for multiple swing to achieve an exceptional runic in the case of hard to make weapons.) -- Why so expensive? This is a slayer weapon that outclasses every force slayer on the market today. This also assumes you're paying for 3 swings and 3 reagents. Get her done in one try and you'll pick up the same weapon for 35-65k. Bump that down to Bronze and you might squeeze by for 25k. The main point though, is that when you take your dragon slayer or daemon damner out to farm, you won't have to worry about shelving the character for weeks while you try to find a replacement for the lost weapon.

Counter suggestion (reasoning later): Do not allow crafted weapons and make it a little bit different to have a possibility to get our slayer.
a) No runic hammer needed
b) Set chance to just 100% per swing and reduce drop rate of the reag
c) Make it a "slayer conversion" reag. Like Silver -> Random Repond sub or super slayer. Any Abyss-> random elemental sub or super slayer, and so on.
d) PS: I dont like the idea that the reagent drops from the already existing boss monsters. The boss monsters have already good output with platinum, meat, gold, statue chance and so on.
... maybe, new boss monsters just for the reags? Like e.g. "Lich Master" at covetous liches, "Rat Lord" at Ice rat camp, "Elder daemon" e.g. at fire temple, "Lethal Poison Elemental" in shame

Reason:
The problem on craftable slayer weapons - especially runics - is that they are better than most found weapons.

It is already now a very high game of luck to find anything useful - or even anything good like a chance of 1 to thousends.

Means: I somewhat hate the "have to item ID" every single weapon to hope for something good.
Now -> If runic weapons are coming in and calculateable slayer weapons the farming of monsters may not have any more sense.

So on the part of the Economy: We farm monsters for gold + for their possible slayer weapon drops.
But if slayers are craftable, why would we still need to farm them - and why would we still need craftable slayers then?

I fear it woud take some of the fun of farming when the prices drop so hard.
EVERYBODY, I mean, just everybody! Would own this "golden katana of everything slayer"
The problem on craftable weapons is that you can predict the output weapon, while on farming, that a specific weapon of a high magic level of a specific slayer to drop is very very low.

I honestly hate to write an argument against your argument, because I honestly agree with you on most of what I'm about to argue.

1. Craftables being better than most found weapons. This is why I suggested a 2/3s chance of wasting a swings and a reagent to make one.
2. I would love to agree with you, but how else can you respond to the rest of the playerbase when tamer's have been given blessed dragons. This system at least keeps the economy in rotation and creates a very sharp line between what will be available and what won't be available. The other suggestion is blessing weapons, and I personally hate bonded dragons as much as I hate the idea of blessing weapons.

So I guess what I'm aiming for is that I don't want slayers to have to be farmed, slayers are pretty much a prerequisite for PvM dexxers. Mages don't have to farm reagents. Tamers don't have to farm pets. The only builds that require farming other than the dexxer are crafters - farming resources. So this is why I suggest making slayers attainable through craftable resources.

As for the power level of craftable slayers, perhaps the process of creating runic slayer should bump the weapon down one runic class. Ex: The crafting process takes away the exceptional quality and bumps the weapon down one power grade. Dull hammers would make no-modifier slayers, Shadow would make dull-stat slayers, gold > bronze, so on and so forth, and always sacrificing exceptional. This would make agapite slayers the most powerful slayers on the market, and they would have the power of a non-exceptional gold runic weapon + a subslayer. Perhaps runics should even drop ALL modifiers except for damage buff. Ex - No tactics bonuses, no durability bonuses, no exceptional bonuses. Just flat plain slayers. Thus the player made ones would always be at the lowest tier.

Generally I like your Idea Skydancer. And I think something something should be done. But carefully.
I am not so sure if "Slayers" are the problem. I can tell you, that I make as much money with my dexxer than with my tamer - and with more fun - and with a medium weapon. I think there should be more spawns for dexxers (and I am speaking of pve dexxers with an addition like provo, peacemaking, etc.) - and dexxers being able to fight bosses. However, back to the topic.

I think it's the right direction what you are writing. Removing the exceptional bonus + lower it a level.
Still, why would somebody still keep any other weapon types if he could have a "katana" or "double axe" and so on.
I just think it would take of the variety.

It is a bit of a mind storming, because Telamon would need to like the idea AND implement it (which may also count in how complex it is to program)
Also, I think dexxers could also live with just a basic slayer weapon, ruin, might, thats enough to be successfull.
So: I am still for need to combine "find weapon" with "crafting" - just to give us the motivation to "farm" and the "YAY, found a weapon I can use! Or sell! Or craft with!"

Let's say, like my idea above with some addition:
Basic Idea: Transmuting a weapon to another slayer (which makes e.g. lizardman slayers give a use, as you could "transmute" it to spider slayer, always the opposite).
Crafting additions:
- use normal smith hammer reduced "tactics by 15, damage by 6 (vanq -> might etc)
- use dull copper: "tactics by 15, damage by 4 (vanq -> force)"
- Shadow (Tac 10, dam 4), Copper (Tac 10, dam 2), Bronze (Tac 5, dam 2), golden (Tac 5, dam 0), agapite (Tac 0, dam 0)
- and from verite on: (Tac PLUS 5), valorite: (Tac PLUS 5, Damage PLUS 2) - e.g. exceedingly accurate butcher knife of power and theratan slayer can become a "+25 vanq of dragon slaying" if "enhanced with valorite hammer"
Plus the need of your "reagent", lets say: ONE extra reagent for each level of transmuting, e.g.:
Basic: 1 reagent, Dull Copper: 2, (...) Valorite: 9 if the reagent

Well, what I want to express with all that: Make it really very hard to get a slayer, so it would not destroy the market prices, but make it more predictable + give the useless slayers (e.g. lizardman or snakes bane) an use + create new content for pve (reagent farming, best at dexxer friendly content like liches, etc) + create new conent for crafting.
Just do not give slayer katanas away "for free". In comparision: Your dull copper katana would make all other sword weapons up to (let me check the damage tables...) - might => trash. A pretty basic weapon like might + 10 katana would outdamage every other word weapon up to force +20 tac - so all found "broadswords of force +20 tac" slayers would just end in the trash if we could directly craft katanas.

all shields, forified hardened and even npc bought, have only 2 ar addition, ar is pretty important for a warriors hits recieved, makes parrying a useless skill.
if could have indestructable shield give +20 {wowser} or even +15 could get ar close to or even in the 70's.
i could resist on some pk's.
havnt seen on other shards but if could add fire, energy and poison resistance!!!! i might even stay and fight a pk instead of run!

losing dex for high ar and magical resistance. ya ill go for that.
add that shield.. i can even be afk with a heal macro. could have some resistance on fluffy IV with a cpl warrioirs, make an equility of the skill tame and combat
would change the table on mage tamer domination!

I would use it for PvM. I’ll take any change that makes dexxing in PvM a little more balanced. Boosting defensive capabilities would be great. Even better would be a way to not risk losing your high priced slayer every damn time you leave the house - because dexxing can’t really be done without it. This can be done by either making slayers more plentiful, through crafting options or increased drops, or by adding a method to bless weapons.

Yes, this entire system is geared towards making slayers up to force readily available available in the game.

The dragon shield is specifically designed so that a single tamer will still wreck a single dexxer. The shield will not negate enough damage to let a a single dexxer stand before two dragons, nor would a 30% fire resist allow a dexxer to stand before a marepack. My goal here is not to usurp tamer's from the top of the food chain, as I firmly believe that is where they belong. Magic is supposed to be wondrous. Dragon's are supposed to be fable.

GM Parry with a Heater Shield (Invulnerability) = 23 AR (I'm not even sure if the shield is in full repair atm).
I have a dexxer that is currently sitting maxxed out at 76 armor in full plate with that shield. Problem is I can push that to 79 in bone and without a dex penalty.

I agree.

Another reason I've been trying to keep the process as simple as possible. I'm fairly familiar with how coding works and can kind of envision what the functions look like. Idk if I'm personally capable of coding the runic enhancements modules, but for the most part, what I'm looking to do here is garner support towards the types of changes that the community would like to see. Achieving that, I've been planning on going in and trying to knock out as much of the drone work as I can with the stock RunUO server files. Stuff like the platemail modifications are very simple, as are ideas like the runic enhancements to shields. Basically, anything that is being used outside of a crafting menu to 'transmute items' into 'other items' is fairly simple to set up. It's just tedious and boring. My hope is to mitigate as much of the work that would have to go into this as possible, hopefully to the extent of presenting a drag-and-drop module that would require testing and tweaking instead of building.

I agree and disagree, it's like I'm fighting a war in both armies lol. It's the damned bonded dragons that throw a wrench in what I would like most vs. what I believe would be fair.

A standard exceptional slayer weapon would beat out all the vanqs in the game if used correctly.

Personally, I love this comparison.
Blessed Runebook: Millions
Ethy: Millions
Mages: 64 blessed weapons per spellbook. (4k~/spellbook)
Tamer's: 175k per bond slot + 20k per control slot + Dragon's(Free in the Wild - I fed mine my dead body until they accepted me as their master.)
Battle Miner: Mine will never leave guard zone with an axe that was cheaper than the tamer's bond slot, but infinitely more expensive than my free dragons.

Bard's are much better because they need instruments that do expire, require looting, and can be looted. (The way it should be.) But the bard's slayers are a dime a dozen and come in one shape and size per category. Some of them are useless, but if you are farming them. Every single one you get will likely be usable.

I like this, but instead of swapping slayers to the opposite type, I would recommend modifying slayers to similar types. The reason I suggest modifying slayers within their category instead of to their opposite category is bthatit makes more sense thematically. 'The properties of an ogre thrashing weapon are very similar to the properties of a troll slaughter weapon. So we can fairly easily modify one to the purpose of the other.'

Idk, I have a bad habit of looking at everything from the perspective of how it would logically work in a real world scenario vs. what can be coded into a game. My blacksmith simply won't shut up right now. 'Modifying a repond weapon to perform as a silver weapon is simply impossible, you might as well throw one away and just build the other.' -- Taylon Carr - Grandmaster Jackass.

I had honestly planned on writing what I have written below to envision runic uses in a way that followed your suggestion... The grandmaster jackass seemed to write a completely different system instead...

Dull + Shadow
Consuming both hammers +1 reagent. (Reagent determines type of slayer created.) = An exceptional sub slayer weapon.
...or...
Consuming both hammers +1 reagent per subslayer category under a superslayer's heading = An exceptional super slayer weapon.

Copper
The copper hammer is capable of imbuing a ruin weapon with a slayer property.
The item being imbued with the slayer properties must already have its magical modifier. (You cannot imbue a player made weapon with a copper hammer.)
Requires 1 additional creature reagent.
Consumes the hammer in the process.

Bronze
The bronze hammer is capable of imbuing a might weapon with a slayer property.
The item being imbued with the slayer properties must already have its magical modifier. (You cannot imbue a player made weapon with a bronze hammer.)
Requires 2 additional creature reagents.
Consumes the hammer in the process.

Gold
The bronze hammer is capable of adding +5 accuracy and +2 damage to any subslayer weapon.
Requires 1 appropriate reagent of the subslayer's type for damage.
Consumes the hammer in the process.
Can also enhance playermade exceptional slayers. (First enhance would only be +1)
Price to build your own perfect subslayer - 1.25million gold - before fortifications.

Agapite
The agapite hammer is capable of adding +5 accuracy and +2 damage to any super slayer weapon.
Requires 1 appropriate reagent per subslayer category included in the super slayer's type.
Consumes the hammer in the process.
Can also enhance playermade exceptional superslayers. (First enhance would only be +1)
Price to build your own perfect superslayer - 5million gold. - before fortifications.

Both your system and the one I just revised above, I think, accomplish these goals. I really like the idea of transmuting slayers - whether it be from one category to a completely different category, or within the same category. If we were to go the route of opposites.

...Now to see how horribly I screwed up all these quotes.
EDIT. Pretty badly, fixed now.

so then tedious crafting and hours of perfecting is far greater of an asset than a large percentage of the majority of the collected magical items.
and then also, slayers gm made with special tools are far greater than the populated availability of shields? of coarse, those few rare, that are??
i just saying my neewbie smith has been id'ing and smelting all magic items found. and retty much all shields i find are +2 AR, fortified, hardening. defense, guarding! they're all same all though its too late for my warrior to have parry, in the future i may use it on other characters!

Ringmail is not useless.

Just ask the Orcs.

Shields are dependant on parry skill. So without it, all shields are pretty much useless. However, there is a large percentage of people here who would tell you that parry is a horrible place to put your skill points - but I won't quote why here as I have not collected enough research to have a firm understanding of how shields work and why. Basically, I recommend researching both shields, and the parry skill, before vesting your time there.

As for the quality of what a smith can produce vs. what can be found in the wild. Exceptional iron equipment is a good place to start, and exceptional valorite is nearly as good as the best magical armor you will find in the wild. A smith can also make better weapons that most of the stuff you will find in the wild, but they require runic hammers to create, which are VERY hard to come by.

then a gm smith with a runic hammer can make a way better shield with magical resistance than magical shields in the wild! of coarse the few rares that you wouldnt even want to use any ways!
so parry is kinda useless then unless u have cash for a good shield and availability to it also.

To my knowledge...

Shields only come with AR, no special qualities beyond that, and making anything besides a weapon with a runic hammer yields the exact same result as using a normal hammer.