A Red's Injustice...

Discussion in 'Renaissance Discussion' started by Cheapsuit, Jan 7, 2018.

Should reds be allowed in town and have stat loss taken away?

  1. Yes, it will bring more pvp to the server.

    31.7%
  2. No, i get scared at the sight of reds, and don't want them anywhere near me.

    58.5%
  3. Makes me no difference either way, just as long as there's more action.

    11.0%
Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. SativaGreen

    SativaGreen Member

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    Anything other than the current system; however, it goes beyond the ramifications of murderers and begins with incentive to actually be in places where non-consensual PvP can occur.

    The real point of this thread is about increasing PvP in a UO:R NO TRAMMEL server. Which shouldn't be such a scorned topic...

    When they removed STCs in dungeons, people had a reason to be in them. I think anything along the lines of increasing the Reward for players to be in dungeons while doing something to increase the Risk will help solve the same issues. Whether stat loss is adjusted or not is really besides the point if there's increased PvP.

    ___

    They did the Destard special spawn tonight and Hedge Maze spawn over the weekend. It was awesome PvP because of the increased rewards.

    More stuff like that.

    Whether it's town events where reds can come (I've seen them turn off the guards in Moonglow) or increasing rewards/spawn in Dungeons.

    It's all the same thing, as long as there's more PvP.
    Cheapsuit likes this.
  2. Pirul

    Pirul Well-Known Member
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    I have no clue what STC’s are, but whenever I go farm, it seems the best spots are always taken. I don’t know what hours you play, but there is plenty of activity out and about in dungeons. And rewards can hardly get any better than the plat train that champs are.

    At the height of C^V (my former guild), we used to roll 8-10 deep running around dungeons looking for reds to fight. I don’t see a real anti-pk group here. Really punishing murderers upon death would create an incentive for more active anti-pk groups and THEN you’d find PvP. You would not need staff activated events to create PvP. It would be out and about in the world.
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  3. SativaGreen

    SativaGreen Member

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    Short term counts. They were removed in dungeons on OSI with Publish 16 once the Champion system became fully active with Powerscrolls and the Harrower was added. So, technically, that's where we're at except we have STCs.

    The game used to actually just boot you from all dungeons for 30 minutes if you died. This was the beginning of item insurance too because all blues kept their loot on their ghost. Reds only kept 50% of their resources if they died.

    It became an early form of battlegrounds.

    You can see they tried various ways to get blues and reds inside dungeons. Which lacks here, in my opinion. Whether that's because of the stigma surrounded by stat/skill loss or just the overall low incentive to be in dungeons.

    Both were handled in Publish 16, and very successfully. So hopefully we can draw some inspiration of the good things OSI did with Risk vs Reward.
    Cheapsuit likes this.
  4. SativaGreen

    SativaGreen Member

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    This was because of Powerhour, if you remember. The whole server would gain increased skill chance for 1 hour (8pm EST) which resulted in about 30+ newbs at the BK bone wall in Deciet. Fucking awesome times. Waiting for stamina to refresh just to get close enough to the choke point.

    No one could even afford a horse back then...

    All for some reds to come in and take us out like bowling pins.
  5. One

    One Well-Known Member
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    Oh if it were me at the helm I'd increase long-term counts to 72 hours and short-term counts to 24. Meaning one "free" murder a day. Short-terms would just be adapted for 3 accounts.

    A Functional Bounty System

    I would force reds to pay 210% of any bounties placed on their head (up to a maximum of 2.1 million gp burden) in order to resurrect.

    100% - Returned to the payers
    100% - Given to the hunter
    10% - Goes to paying town criers and bounty board painters.

    If the reds themselves don't have the gold in their bank I'd let the person resurrecting them pay, or let them resurrect when they turn blue.

    Get Rid of Stat Loss and Let Reds Into Town

    Then... I would get rid of stat-loss and let the reds into towns!

    But... No stat-loss?

    Penal Servitude aka Red PvParadise!

    Indeed! I would place reds who died with over 4 short-term counts on Marble Island. Their short-term counts would cease decaying. Instead, they would have to hand mine 10,000 ore for each short-term count, automatically handed in to the Warden NPC (They would succeed in each attempt even at zero mining). Each 10,000 ore = Minus 1 short-term count. Additionally they would get nominal pay of 2 gp for each 1 ore (direct deposit) which they could use at local vendors. A mix of public and private vendors perhaps, including regeants, pots, and cloth for anyone there who wants to take advantage of the abundance of l33t m0f0s there to sharpen their PvP skills.

    Other players would be allowed to visit the island but no prisoners allowed to leave until they had done their time. Oh yeah, and no one could give counts on this island.

    Rehabilitation! Plus having all those l33t r0xx0rs together would be PvP paradise. A bunch of reds all working together with no Trammy tamers to ruin the fun!

    (Disclaimer: The island part is just for fun, I gave up on that long ago. Lengthening counts and fixing the bounty system I do actually support though. Let there be no crime without punishment).
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2018
  6. Jakob

    Jakob Well-Known Member

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    TL;DR this thread except for OP: anathema!
  7. Cheapsuit

    Cheapsuit Well-Known Member
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    Yes you're currently playing and I am not, I respect that, and of course you have insight, never doubted that. But there are plenty of players who aren't currently playing.
    I'm speaking on those reasons and trying to improve the attraction of the server for everyone. Did I succeed? Maybe not, but they get to choose, right here, with this poll.
    There will never be a solution to tickle everyone's fancy, but in order to improve at ANYTHING, you must be willing to make changes.
    You have been here a few months, I've been starring at the character statues macroing in occlo a little longer than you, and it becomes bothersome at some point.

    So you go right ahead and enjoy the server (this alone makes me happy), but please allow me my voice on how and what I think might improve
    our server.

    Edit: I also agree that there should be consequences to murder, I just don't agree that preventing a toon from playing (stat loss) is the answer. I like encouraging people to play, not the other way around.
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  8. Nusir

    Nusir Well-Known Member
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    I haven't read all 6 pages of this post, so from the title here is my view:

    when you say Red in town, you are talking about Ocollo, the 'safe heaven' and I would say a firm No... If you really want to be to be able to be attacked in town, take stealing. be known as a perma grey and Bobs your uncle.

    and stat loss is a major part of being a PK, the downside to running about slaughtering afk tamers and cotton pickers is that you need to watch that you either don't have over 5 short or you have to be leet enough not to die.
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  9. One

    One Well-Known Member
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    I mostly agree with you, and I've been railing against reducing stat-loss for several pages. But, I'm okay with the red in town part. I wouldn't have been okay with it until the changes to NPC LoS but at this point killing a blue in town is very difficult, and most of the people in Ocllo are (young) anyway and can't be killed by other players.

    I don't think it would all of a sudden turn this into PvP Central but seeing as with 3 accounts not going into town is barely a punishment anyway... I feel like it couldn't hurt.
  10. Nusir

    Nusir Well-Known Member
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    Isn't the whole point of UOR to be more or less as it was, and there is a town reds can go to. If people want to hangout there they can.
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  11. One

    One Well-Known Member
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    The point of UOR, as I understand it, is to progress in the way OSI would have had Trammel never been introduced. So I don't think the UOR mission forbids this per se. As it is we have BoDs, Champs, Level 7 T-Maps, bonded tames, and other additions (most of which are great, a few of which I am admittedly not fond of). What I mean is, this isn't Voldershard where era accuracy is the beginning and end of an argument. Telamon reserves, to sometimes excellent results, the right to push UO along a path of what he believes to be continual improvement.

    I'm fine with reds being barred from town as they are now, I just think in this case the OP is more or less right that a red who showed up in town would be a lightning rod for public action in a good way. If this were Siege, with a one character limit, not going into town would be a huge punishment. If the LoS changes hadn't been made we'd have to keep reds out of town to prevent them from wreaking havoc. But since we have 15 characters across 3 accounts and NPCs can call the guards across the screen and through walls I do feel the benefits outweigh the risks.
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2018
  12. Sheepdog

    Sheepdog Well-Known Member

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    I thought it was to perfect what once was, and I think Chris has come pretty close. Sure there are a few tweaks here and there that deserve some attention but all of this, everything, comes from one single person and their free time.

    It is my opinion, still, that a major overhaul of one of the biggest mechanics in the game would have a massive negative affect.

    Of course I would appreciate PVP getting some attention, but this is not what it needs.
  13. Cheapsuit

    Cheapsuit Well-Known Member
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    Something like this is should be easily reversible if it produces more negatives than positives, I would think. Of course I'm not a coder, so I wouldn't know for sure.
  14. Skydancer

    Skydancer Active Member

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    Allow reds in town, remove stat/loss, revise shorts/longs.
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2018
  15. wylwrk

    wylwrk Well-Known Member

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  16. Skydancer

    Skydancer Active Member

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    The only reason you've got nobody but blues to come after is because y'all want to camp PvM'ers instead of seeking out actual PvP.
  17. Cheapsuit

    Cheapsuit Well-Known Member
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    The reason killing blues feels so much better, is that feeling of violation.
  18. Poogoblin

    Poogoblin Active Member
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    The reason you could do this on Siege is the one character per account, imo.

    I for one never understood why people go red, usually killing people that are preoccupied with PvE, not setup to PvP, or AFK killing.... So you basically want to be able to do all this and have no consequences.... Cool story.
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  19. Larloch

    Larloch Well-Known Member

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    I played a custom, long running server, that toggled this back and forth. Yes, there is more action in towns. The devil was in the details tho. Healing a red in town was still a criminal action, so you got guard wacked. At best you get one or two dummies attack your red and you get to run around and handle them. On the bad side, all the tamers start pulling tames out of the stable and sync "All Kill" on you. So it would kinda promote more action, but not any more then coming into town grey. Also there was no stat loss which was nice, but then again stat loss really helps prevent rez killing.
  20. Magnolia

    Magnolia Member

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    I know many who don't go to places where reds hang out because pvp is not a talent they have. My pvp skill is -85. If pvp were the most popular thing to do, more would be in factions. If a pvp town was going to be popular, Buc's Den would be crowded. As you can tell, Buc's Den is usually deserted. I can't go to my fav stable now as Reds come there often and I get tired of being killed and losing my stuff. I am poor at pvm too so I don't have unlimited resources to keep buying my supplies. If there were no 'safe' areas here, I know me and many others who would not be here. If you want to go to towns and pvp, move to Buc's. If there are not many there, it means others don't want their town to be full of pvp also. You don't need a survey to get the answer to if reds should be in towns, the proof is already apparent by the choices of where people go. I already miss out on a lot of fun things to do because of reds and being killed and looted before I can enjoy where I am going. Reds in towns? I won't be on this server. I would not be able to play as I would have everything looted and not be alive long enough to enjoy the game.
    Skydancer likes this.

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