AFK Gump? Please at least try to read before voting, this is why we ended up with Trump

Edit: I'm never looking for a forum fight, some folks do tend to go straight to that method of communication though!

Oh. I'm referencing someone using a DH Macro to repeatedly reveal an area, either unintentionally or intentionally revealing someone, the effect is the same.
I see this as a problem when someone could be stealthing along, say following a mark or snooping their pack, only to be revealed by someone who is AFK.

This then has the effect of directly impacting someone who is actively playing. AFK PvP.

There is more to the Detect Hidden issue than just this. But I've been in discussion with Telamon regarding it and feel it is more appropriate for him to release information on this in patch notes or a post elsewhere.

@JimmyTheHand aaaah ok.

I have GM detect hidden on one of my characters, and I'll be honest I do use it a lot, every dungeon I go into, or whenever just roaming around the world, always at banks. It's definitely saved me many a time from losing my mandrake to a bank thief or revealed hidden people in dungeons with Notorious intent.

I just see it as an insurance skill, it ensures that I am aware of who's on my screen at all times.

Thanks for clarifying though dude!

Unfortunately this is just how UO is in 2018, with things like Razor being part of the game now and here to stay. On one hand I preferred UO in 1999 before this was a thing, on the other hand I've enjoyed my time on UOR far more than my time on production. So I don't know how to reconcile that. As you've pointed out a conversation about it is probably a waste of time because it's not something that will change now and as mostly older guys nobody has time for the alternative anymore. Automation will continue to be an issue for many but Lord British has taken note and Sosarians now enjoy Universal basic income.

Absolutely, use the skill, frequently! I do.
It's those damn auto reveals that I detest.

Additionally, as I said there's more to this, but not my place to announce to the world.

I think there is a fair bit of "It's just how it is" going on with a few things around here. Why not change things for the better?

Typically in an MMO, time spent in game equates to success, most people can do most things - it's just a matter of time spent farming, or crafting, etc. Lets face it, it is not the most complicated game in the world, strategies are limited and most can achieve what they want if they put in the hours.

As we're mostly older people now with less time for trivial things such as gaming, the idea of having increased gain rates and allowing macroing of skills for a free shard is a good one - it means we can all do a lot more in less time, as well as things we never got to do before.

However, this principle is being bypassed when you're using bots to provide information that typically is gained via being attended. In fact bots that are doing anything except skill gain or sorting of items bypass the "time spent = success" idea. We should most definitely be encouraging social, attended play, not anti social botting.

I even go as far as to say I think the current platinum reward for hours logged in is broken. It simply results in a lot of people house hiding or bank sitting. A different approach, perhaps requiring x time in y zones would work. Even if those were just banks, or a bonus for being diverse in your afk location. I do know some people still have their preferred bank to sit at, but we could encourage more players to do that by offering plat only if you are diverse enough in your locations. Just an idea anyway.

I'm now definitely moving away from the original topic, so back to it.

Razor is a great thing, as a player of UO back in T2A/Renassaince, I love the ability to do so much without so many clicks. However the automation in UO:R is a little too much to bear sometimes.

Do we want a game where "best bot, or team of bots, or team with best bots, wins?" I don't think anyone wants that and we should be looking hard at why some automation is allowed and some is not.

I have a few thoughts as to why, but they're going to be seen as anti-somegroup / inflammatory.

Players say "It's just how it is around here" not because they don't care, but because they are most likely exhausted from having the same conversations again and again. I don't disagree with your point but the problem is, almost always, "for the better" is entirely subjective. I believe the admins are happy to look into issues and consider changes when presented with a solid and rational improvement or solution to a problem. But this rarely actually happens.

In my opinion, changes to base mechanics should be hard to argue for and a great majority of the player base and staff need to be sincerely convinced of the benefit of making said change. Otherwise, the shard becomes just another of the countless shitty free shards that have come and gone over the years because "we want stuff".

I don't like when this point is made because there is no great conspiracy taking place. It's just not a real thing. If you want to do something to nerf a specific group of players, a new group will pop up in their place and the net change will be zero. I've been playing here just over a year now but it's been more than enough time to understand that no group has any advantage over another on UOR.

Subjectivity is why we should be discussing it instead of blindly shutting down anyone who is interested in discussion, which seems to be the predominant tactic.
If a topic is repeatedly brought up by multiple players, numerous times, receives votes on a poll that clearly outweigh the opposite vote, is brought up again and positions and views explained, again I say repeatedly. Then we should look at it, no?

Example: http://uorforum.com/threads/random-idoc-timer.22367/

So, rather than having players exhausted from repeated attempts to get people to consider their view, lets talk about it.
Unfortunately, as I've seen from those who have bailed on the discussion, that this isn't an option for them. Talking about it openly might actually work out in a way they don't like.

-.-

What is this business of talking about a conspiracy, no one has brought this up except you folks using it as a blanket answer.

I could've been talking about mages, idocers, RPers, shard veterans... the list goes on, the community is diverse. To think that making changes won't affect one group or the other is ludicrous. To assume that my own thoughts will be viewed as anti-somegroup or inflammatory is, well, my own opinion. Considering you don't know what I'm thinking - you shouldn't speak that way.

As for no group having an advantage, you're insane I think. Veterans are a group, they have an advantage. The advantage is earned through time spent and resources gained - its still an advantage though, isn't it.

It's just a knee-jerk reaction from players that have been here long enough to have gone through the arguments already and have a groan every time they see a new thread about it. I'm not saying it's right.

You hit the nail on the head, though. It should be talked about. So far, nobody has been able to effectively map out a better system for UOR. And that's why we go around in circles.

This poll is 50/50 right now but it doesn't seem like many yes voters are actually contributing to the discussion here. The players who want a change just need to do better and bring a bit more to the table, because so far they have been entirely unconvincing.

I actually haven't seen one argument that effectively supports allowing automation of one type, over another.

No one seems to want to address the question.

As for the yes voters - based on the folks that DO contribute to forum discussions, how they act toward new players, and so forth... why WOULD they want to be involved? It's just painting a target on your back.

You're the one who said it. And I don't know who "you folks" is because I don't really associate with any of the players you are likely referring to. This is where I'm out. Remember to have fun out there.

the people that have been here for a while groan at these threads simply because at least 6 x per year we get the thread:

I camped an idoc for 12 hours and then at the last minute a bunch of reds came and killed me and took everything... why does idocing work like this we should change the system.

people are over it. we have done it enough.

ive already posted that i used to idoc in a team of 3 (non veteran idocers we were noobs) and non-automation and random idoc timers would have hurt us the most.

but sure lets have everyone who has never run the map for months on end, dealt with actually fighting for the loot, and all the rest of the crap that comes with us push their uninformed opinion. that sounds best

So instead of addressing the concerns of players that are in well written, researched and referenced posts... you dump everyone in to the same basket of I cant be fucked.
Nice.

If you can't be bothered with it - fine, leave the thread alone.

I will be here ready to discuss with anyone capable of reasoning with someone who disagrees with their views.

they arent well written, or researched at all.

i did the research i lived the life.

you are completely discounting anything i say yet hypocritically complain that i am doing the same?

I mentioned a conspiracy? Nope.

You undermine your position by breaking down and reacting like a child. This seems to be the case with these threads more often than not, and why nothing gets resolved. You are clearly not ready to discuss this with anyone who has a different view.

@Smash You're asking me to believe you on the grounds that you're telling me. I can't do that because I have no idea who you are or what you have done.

I have barely addressed you, let alone discounted any word you wrote.

It seems to me that you're being aggressive and using bullying tactics.
You were supposed to leave those in the school ground where you developed them.

You seem to be the one reacting emotionally here. Smash is right and he has the experience to give an informed opinion.