AFK Gump? Please at least try to read before voting, this is why we ended up with Trump

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@Gideon Jura, I personally don't involve myself in the debate between socialism vs capitalism, but to mock or dismiss those who have not achieved the same level of consciousness as you, helps no one. My two cents.

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Yeah I was trying to discuss this earlier, but there's too much insanity around here to have a real discussion.

So - anyone can ghost, anyone can check for ghosts with a ghost, I have done this in the past, why can't others?

As for ghosting outside dungeons, is it only allowed because you cannot legally discover an idoc timer using legal automation from a ghost?

Does that mean we can use a ghost outside a dungeon however the hell we like, but as soon as we're in a dungeon it's not allowed? Seems that is inconsistent and there are some pretty fine lines there.

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You 100% missed the point jimmy. I said exactly the same thing as deacon and you did it then as well.

Discovering a ghost with your own ghost is not countering a ghost. Its simply finding a ghost you cant do anything about. Actually finding that ghost or not means nothing because there are 0 remedies to a ghost sitting there.

Also - ive heard its illegal to ghost areas outside of dungeons as well.. not everywhere of course. For instance somebody got told off for ghosting a stable during the xmas event because they were following peoples gates and then trying to steal their kills

That's the first time someone has said that it's not countering by discovering I think? No it's not countering, it's making yourself aware of threats in the area.
Sometimes that's all we can do.

For the record; I'm not trying to argue or ignore anyone's comments just for the sake of it. I'm glad you replied with your/the reasoning of this.

Ok, so it seems its situational, depending on the intent of the player. That's a little ambiguous I think.

I'd prefer to see a gameplay solution to this problem rather than a ban on some parts of the mechanic of ghosts.
I think it's been discussed in detail elsewhere, but there are legitimate playstyles involving ghosts - like haunting someone in a RP situation.

Minimizing rules that can be broken in game would be more ideal but it's a difficult one, every solution I can think of breaks another part of the game.

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@Gideon Jura, my bad, I only read the part about you mentioning your rant about socialism.

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from what i gather from posts of his, Chris believes in risk vs reward.

if you want the reward of knowing player locations at popular farming spots, you need the risk of being able to be found and killed.

in all situations im aware of where people were able to use mechanics that lowered the risk of an action a considerable amount he has patched that method out.

The automation of sign checking is allowed because there is the risk of the bot dieing.

On a shard where we can play with 3 clients concurrently, you must accept that there will be automation of various tasks.

From their website:

"Discouraging Gameplay

Just because this is a felucca world does not give players the permission to harass and discourage other players in ways that exceed the boundaries of common sense. If your conduct is judged to be primarily focused on activities that will result in players no longer enjoying playing on Renaissance this conduct will be addressed.Examples of understood felucca game play:
• Killing a player in a dungeon, looting their items
• Stealing from players
• Looting other players houses.
Examples of discouraging game play:
• Telling a player to get good or leave the server
• Excessive verbal harassment
• Trapping players in locations that force them to use the help stuck system to escape
• Using ghost scouts to track players locations in dungeons and at champion spawns
• Excessive attempts to scam other players.
• Choosing abusive, but valid, character names or guild titles with the goal of discouraging others.
• Spreading false narratives regarding the development and direction of the server. (aka fear mongering)
• Abusing house item decay mechanics to impact the gameplay of others.
Note: When in doubt, if you think a certain behavior is discouraging to other players, then do not do it. It is not our job to provide an environment where players can prey on other players outside the expected world mechanics. If the staff notices a pattern of behavior that indicate to us that a player does not appreciate their access to the Renaissance server and exist here only to torture others for their own amusement you will be removed from the community."

So ghosting anywhere, other than dungeons/champs, is legal. Whether they've given us an ability to counter ghosts, is separate issue. Some solutions would be:

1) Tracking to show ghosts.
2) Detect to show ghosts in houses or can ban from your own ghost (lets all just have dedicated ghosts, fun...)
3) Spirit Speak shows ghosts.
4) All ghosts are visible.

Either way, something needs to be done to COUNTER them. I agree.​

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I once suggested skill usage to combat this. I have since changed my mind.

Imagine an organization placing ghosts let's say, only 12 ghosts in the world. Does everybody else now need to either fit a skill into their template that's dedicated to just spotting ghosts or impose the idea of dual/triple boxxing as standard efficiency practice?

This is not the time nor place but, oh well...

A ghost should be classified as a transition period from un-resourceful. RP aspect will need to go to the wayside, unfortunately as well as the stolid mentality that ghosts are to be used as scouting mechanisms.

Ghosts should see a grey static world with only NPC's as company, no players by default.

I would however offer full support into a sprite change effort from the robed ghostly figure we have now to a Knuckles with accompanying audio.

"do u no dey wey?"
"u do not no dey wey!"

I think the easier thing, instead of getting rid of the sight of PCs and NPCs, is that if their body has decayed this combination of skills would force an immediate help/stuck back to a town.

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I would support something like this, except ghosts can be gated around, so they can be sent back from town to a dungeon. Also, what about red ghosts?

It is a VERY fine line indeed. No solution is perfect. Therefore I am sure Chris believes the current solution is the best for now, until some better solution can be found.

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Some good ideas here.

Combining some thoughts together and discarding a LOT of my own and others thoughts that would directly affect gameplay in a negative way, I came up with this.
A very simple option that doesn't really affect anything I can think of.

After 5 minutes in ghost form: "Your connection with the spirit world is fading"
After 15 minutes in ghost form: "Your spirit cannot last in this realm much longer"
After 30 minutes in ghost form: "Your spirit has lost all cohesion and cannot remain in this state."

At which point the ghost is teleported to the nearest appropriate shrine for resurrection.

Appropriate meaning:

Same facet.
The nearest shrine.
Only chaos shrine for reds.

Timing could be adjusted of course; but the teleport should be longer than help->stuck, and longer than corpse decay.

Could also possibly utilize nearest healer "a wandering healer has found your spirit and is willing to resurrect you."
Could also possibly only function this way in dungeons.

Thoughts?

Remember - simplicity will be key, as always, in introducing or changing a mechanic. We don't need to over complicate.