AFK Gump? Please at least try to read before voting, this is why we ended up with Trump

Discussion in 'Renaissance Discussion' started by Poogoblin, Jan 14, 2018.

Should IDOC rules be changed eg. AFK gump for clicking house signs repeatedly or random IDOC timer

  1. Yes

    44 vote(s)
    57.9%
  2. No

    32 vote(s)
    42.1%
  1. El Horno

    El Horno Well-Known Member
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    Also curious but let me throw out a guess: a dominant group just crushed all the idocs. The rest of the server couldn't compete so just stopped trying, and then everyone started going to the forums to denounce the system as unfair. I bet they would make threads saying things like "Have you ever wondered why you don't see super rich veterans farming mobs in dungeons?" and "stop being the idiot who keeps feeding the pks by showing up at idocs, everyone is laughing at you."
    wylwrk and One like this.
  2. Chris

    Chris Renaissance Staff
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    Why have bonded tames? - Because it was part of our ERA and allows players to create a bond with their pets. Forcing players with no intrest into learning how to PvP creates a server for only one playstyle. Some players might not want to PvP at all but might enjoy other aspects of the server. And if you incentivize ruining these players experience by rewarding this then that behavior will grow. My first day on a previous server I encountered a player who devoted 30 minutes to trying to drag my newly bought packhorse through a gate outside of town. You also discount the fact that we Drastically modified taming/bonding to link a significant effort/cost to obtaining more than one bonded tame to balance out this system. On OSI you bonded everything with zero risk, zero effort.

    Why have guards who can see through walls? Guards cannot see through walls (there are line of sight checks for criminal acts) However guards can hear combat at a greater range and will react accordingly. If you want to test this yourself simply place a stone wall between a criminal act and a NPC. That said some walls have various LOS properties that can allow a line of sight check to return true. As those are reported we will investigate them and add additional LOS blockers. Again this is another custom change on UOR to maintain fair and logical mechanics.

    Why not get rid of stat-loss? Not sure of the logic on this one. Players use teamwork to ensure that if one player in the team dies they can recover their valuable items, severed head, etc. The reason people use teamwork in this area is because of stat loss. Removing punishment from a system would just be a reward for that specific playstyle outside the known world rules of our era. This would have a disastrous effect on the playerbase perception and experience wise as they learn that murderers face zero consequences for their actions.

    Why not keep the instance gates open at all times? Because sometimes players want to do something with their friends that cannot be interrupted by other players to enjoy parts of UO they love. Renaissance is about making the server a home from all players of all playstyles. For some of the newer instances like the level 7 maps players have a choice to leave the entrance open allowing for help to be brought in or close the entrance and go it alone. Also given the ironman systems that a huge section of the playerbase enjoys some control over these is needed.

    A great deal of you are making the assumption that by randomizing a timer this would somehow encourage players to put the time in to find and camp decays? How does this logic even work? Why bother to get timers at all if the decay window will always be random? Why would the players simply say fuck it, this is not worth my time and give up on this playstyle all together? If I was playing I know this would be my conclusion. The same way I quit on OSI in 2001 when OSI decided that you could place over items and move all of the items under the house sign "to be fair" so that players could no longer block house decays. They had good intentions I suspect. But that one patch destroyed a huge aspect of UO (House decays) and rewarded from that point forward the player with the fastest placement macro and best auto loot scavenger macro.

    This is what concerns us about this situation. How many players would simply point and laugh at the players who put the time into camping house decays as their hard work attempting to get a timer deemed unacceptable. While never bothering to camp a house decay themselves because they don't want to waste 4-8 hours sitting around for a random drop time. (You still need a timer to know when the random window starts after all, I think people are missing this)

    In no way that I can wrap my head about this would the server grow in this area. It would take a beloved playstyle and nerf it simply for the sake of perceived, but unknown, diversity. This is not an issue of "I want it this way, so it is going to be this way" I am legitimately confused how punishing every player who wants to camp a decay with a random drop timer will cause more players to engage in this system? How would it not simply discourage the average player from even taking part because there is no way to know when the house would decay?

    Say you have a single house decay, and there are 10 players watching it. And those 10 players get a timer of between 5 minutes and 5 hours.

    So with the current system the players with an accurate timer would have to camp for around 30 minutes, players with a casual timer might have to watch the house for around 5.5 hours. Everyone else would have a window of between 30 minutes and 5 hours 30 minutes.

    Under a system where all IDOC windows are randomized by 4 hours those same 10 players would have an additional 4 hours that they would have to be available to see if the house falls. From a best case scenario of minutes to a worst case scenario of 9 hours. So who in this equation is punished? Is the player who got the precise timer? Or is the casual player who had a larger window?

    This is what confuses me about these requests. When you do the math on paper, the players who are punished are the same ones everyone claims to want to involve in this system. Anyone today can compete for house decay loot and house spots. The same as anyone can farm Arctic Ogre Lords. There is an equal chance you will be murdered doing either. That is why we have felucca. Outsmart your opponents. That is the core mantra of Ultima Online. Just because someone has a better timer on a house decay does not mean they are a better UO player than anyone else.
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2018
  3. One

    One Well-Known Member
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    Last edited: Feb 3, 2023
  4. El Horno

    El Horno Well-Known Member
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    My Idocing phase was one of my favorite UO experiences and the only reason I lobby against these changes is to protect that experience for future players. And that experience is very much alive and there for the taking, but it isn't going to be a trip you take alone and it isn't going to be effortless. You need to get a group and follow the guide, and under current mechanics, you will have SO much fun trust me. Idocing has everything, pvp, intense competition, pixels, incentivized group play.
    Spankrox and One like this.
  5. Cheapsuit

    Cheapsuit Well-Known Member
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    @Poogoblin, I say you should put a team of 30+ players together to take down the idoc monopoly crew. I don't know who they are, becuz I don't usually find idocs unless it's by pure luck. But if this crew take enough ass whoopins, they'll be force to rethink their strategy.
    Poogoblin, El Horno and wylwrk like this.
  6. El Horno

    El Horno Well-Known Member
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    Yes. Yeeeesssssss. Now you are talking. [​IMG]
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  7. One

    One Well-Known Member
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    Last edited: Feb 3, 2023
  8. Erlkonig

    Erlkonig Well-Known Member
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    "IDOC Announcement system 30% of IDOCs are announced to promote shard wide participation. Note: IDOC camping is still a viable trade as 70% of the IDOCs will remain unreported."

    Limited house lockdowns / secures with the deletion of all resources, gold, and stackables. + much more generous decay rate based on playtime and a paid house watching NPC. + * Add an email warning to owners of houses which are about to go IDOC (2 day warning). Maxed out it was something like 90 days for a house to fall. 1 house per account left plenty of land open. AI did not have houses falling left and right, not sure how it was considered a failure when nobody cared to idoc.
    BlackEye and One like this.
  9. NerK

    NerK Well-Known Member
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    Fuck I learned alot about IDOC'ing. It sounds easy.
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  10. Erlkonig

    Erlkonig Well-Known Member
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    I also want to add that I posted public timers for a few weeks and nobody really bothered to show up. So yea I think this whole thread is just targeting a group of players.
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  11. Gideon Jura

    Gideon Jura Well-Known Member
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    Last edited: Dec 29, 2018
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  12. Poogoblin

    Poogoblin Active Member
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    Definitely was not my intention, additionally I wasn't around when you did said thing. I honestly only even know 1 person out of said group and don't actually know him, I had no intentions of "targetting any group of players" as opposed to eliciting to see if others shared my opinion as this was a first for me.
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  13. Gideon Jura

    Gideon Jura Well-Known Member
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    Last edited: Dec 29, 2018
  14. scuba

    scuba Well-Known Member
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    We made macros so if someone kills the bot any person can come and Rez them and they instantly restart the macro. So in a sense it can be unattended
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  15. Gideon Jura

    Gideon Jura Well-Known Member
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    Last edited: Dec 29, 2018
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  16. SativaGreen

    SativaGreen Well-Known Member

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    Bravo. Great ideas here to eliminate automated gameplay advantages.
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2018
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  17. Spankrox

    Spankrox Active Member

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    Do people who don't idoc full time really understand how much time it involves?

    You run manual checks daily. Can be up to 7 whole books. 1 hour


    You run manual checks half hourly or less depending on the houses in question to help narrow down the window. Can be up to 4 books. 15 mins each

    You've got to run zones once a week to catch fresh stock. Few hours

    Finding and rezzing your bot because he dies ATLEAST once a day

    Then there's the book keeping and maintaining spreadsheets. Wayyy more time than you'd think.

    Then there's scouting drops and pvping to stop other people getting the timer.

    You've got a nice window on a house! Mark a few runes. Now comes the fun part!

    Group up, get organised and get a couple of scouts to pop by a few minutes before the window. Call the drop and gate in and loot! But wait there's PvP? Ok sort that out first while making sure people don't gate loot out.

    Get the loot to your house and secure it.

    Nice work! Now let's go check those heavy chests. Wait. What? CUB, furniture and junk? You mean I just wasted hours for that?
    Yup. 8/10 times it will be junk. Grats on spending hours for nothing.

    So what they get rich doing it? So what they have it on lockdown? The amount of effort and time these boys put in is worth the return. It's not as simple as run bot, go get server birth rares and watch gold and plat rain from the skies.


    The solution is simple. Group up. Work it out yourselves, dedicate all of your free time to it, don't get rich most of the time, then snag a few nice drops every now and then to make up for the lean times.

    Oh yeah that's right. Then you've got to sell it all off. You've got to keep track of who has what, what it's worth, what comes back, who is pulling their weight, who isn't, the raging in group chat because blah blah, the people can't make it and you get steam rolled, stealthers dropping blockers, the constant ghosting of your houses, the threats in-game, the threats on the forums.

    The funny thing is that the people in question donate so much back to the shard, hand houses back for free, host events for newbies, help newbies. If you were to ask them for help getting your body from a dungeon, or chasing off a PK, they would do it.
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  18. One

    One Well-Known Member
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    Last edited: Feb 3, 2023
  19. Imbol

    Imbol Active Member
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    WHO DARE SUMMON MEEE!?

    :p;)
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  20. NerK

    NerK Well-Known Member
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    Telamon, I cant compete at collecting tram like Gideon has... could you spawn a bunch more trammel (sandals, fancy color clothing and maybe even some statues) and hand it out so everyone can have a fair chance?

    It's just not right that some people have experience / put in hours to get things and then others (like me) don't have it.

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