Allow for Permanent Hirelings as end game content for Dexxers?

First, thank you for bringing this up! Why the hell is a dragon under your control in the first place? Is it because you said, 'I've always wanted a pet like you?" What the hell are people doing with these 'highly intelligent beasts'? At best, tamers should get drakes!

Second, I think that risk vs. reward should very much play into the game. If someone risks very little in an endeavor and gains a lot in return then there is little incentive for another to choose a different path. Eventually, nearly everyone chooses the same path for a similar purpose (as we have now) and the game becomes stagnant.

I don't think that dexxers should be anywhere near as capable as dragons for taking or dealing damage. However, I do think that dexxers need a break somewhere in the equation. That, or the tamer/bard template needs a ramp in dificulty. Additionally, I don't think that your version of pet death goes far enough, but that's moot point since we have nearly an entire patch dedicated to having more pets.

I like the hireling concept but not ones you can train. If you want to train followers, make a tamer. I'd say hirelings that anyone can hire of varying skill levels would be best and nearly era accurate. UO had hireling mages, fighters and paladins. If there were control slot variables based on their potency, that would be cool. Nothing that could be truly gank worthy but at least make a fun experience for anyone looking to have a little NPC party along with them. It's very Ultima-esque.

If Paladins and Mages took 3 control slots but fighters took 2, that would be cool and a fun thing to have that makes no imbalance truly.

You assume a dragon is too smart to control? I refer to you "How to Train Your Dragon".

Make a friend of a healing mage! Problem solved!

I will have to agree with Dalavar on this as well. I don't think it is a good idea to give dexers a similar game play option as Tamers. You can have 3 accounts, I am sure there is room for a tamer or two in there if you want that play style.

Maybe we could have uber highly priced pet skins that turn your dragon into a "human companion" and reduce their stats to that of a human for those who want to pursue an RP venture.

Taming / A Lore / Weap Skill / Tactics / Anat / Heal. Add either veterinary or magery depending on how you want to play it.

EDIT: I suppose what I am saying is if you make it so you require 2 skills to have these companions and then another to heal them, I'm all for it. I just don't think you should be able to spend your 700 points however you want and then get companions on top of that.

Exactly. This is what I envisioned. Nothing overpowering and certainly nothing on par with tamers. But, hirelings, available to anyone and occupying one or more control slots, that can take a hit or two and that cost money to maintain and equip. The hirelings should not get slayer effects and their skill set should be limited. However, I do like the idea of them gaining in skill. Maybe they have a lowered skill cap or they gain very slowly but they should get better over time if you use them repeatedly.

This was funny.

A trained, armed NPC fighter that you can lodge at an inn is too overpowering for some I see.

Just unnecessary... I wouldn't want one following me around that's all. I think you should be able to turn your dragon into an "armed NPC fighter" if you wanted one... or introduce something akin to speach-craft in Skyrim as a skill and couple it with Eval Int and Anatomy (or one of them). it just feels like we would be playing a different game if we all had a bunch of NPCs trailing us everywhere. If you name a character Bob the Mage or something and walk around with Tim the Bard and Joe the Fighter (Your NPC companions), who does the PK attack when he find you crawling in a dungeon?

The PK would target the NPCs because they won't recall away, they also don't give counts. The PK would end up with your gear that you equiped onto your NPC fighter, so a lot more risky than pets. There is no need for a skill requirement because these aren't nearly as powerful as a dragons or drakes. This would be primarily for role players that wan't a more skilled teammate if they are solo or want to do team battles. If you wan't to farm easy gold, yeah make a tamer, this change would not be any form of substitute at all. You can hire npc fighters right now, do you see people walking around with them, trailing all over?

This would really help new players as well.

I have cast my vote and stated my opinion so I will leave it at that. You are right, it would probably have little effect on game play and only appeal to Role Players, which is why I cannot see the appeal.

*troll hangs head and walks back to cave*

^ bumped for continued debate/ideas

So far, even if we don't go for the "full Monty" to allow permanent hireling + equipment it seems favored to at least allow arming of hired npc.

As it stands now you can train hirelings like dragons but as you do their gear is destroyed, plus we have no way to determine stats and skills.

I have additional thoughts as well that could tie this to a virtue system as opposed to a "dexxer" only content

If we are talking about this for RP content then why not have undead, orc and human hirelings available to each alliance class?

When you approach and ask to hire them a gump appears and you have outfit/armor, weapon and duration of contract options, each costing a certain amount of gold. I think allowing them to be equipped with equipment from your own inventory could be an option that is available when hiring them along with a good amount of gold, however, you must have the item on you and it will disappear once their contract expires or they get killed and looted.

Allow for Paladins, Rangers, Fighters, Mages for each alliance class, only the names would be different. Each class would cost a certain amount of gold based upon their respective power rating.

Their skills raise as per normal hirelings but to get them to a point at which you see any improvements, it'll cost a shit ton of gold in contract fees. They should not even be close to Drakes, Dragons, Mares or summons as far as their power ratings are concerned.

QFT

This embodies the vision I have.

I would reduce the 'shit ton of gold' to perhaps the following:

1. You can only equip from your own inventory and equipping costs a 'refitting' fee (5-10k gold per item). Equipped items must drop on death. And you can re-equip at anytime for additional refitting fees (you do not get previous armor back. Once you fit it, it is consumed and on the npc's corpse)
2. You must continually pay them (like you have to continue to feed dragons and other pets) in order to keep them loyal
3. They definitely should never be able to exceed what a normal player could reach, and I'd argue 75% capacity of what a human player can reach. 168 max stats and 540 total skill points only be able to max at 90 skill points in any given trainable skill
4. Must be able to 'lodge them' at an inn/tavern with 'lodge' command.

I have seen this on other Ultima free shards. It is an interesting concept and I dabbled with it on those servers but I am not sure how well I would like it here. I just don't know the behind the scenes coding and systems needed to be put in place here, how tough they are. The other servers I have seen this on had an experience system for these types of creatures, because they had a system where the hireling would start out weak then get stronger as it gained experience. They had human NPC hirelings and dragon types that would grow in power and transform as they gained experience and leveled up.

I had originally voted yes to this idea but after some thought I believe there are other ways to increase end game content for dexxers. Yes having another body take the blows would increase survivability and help put to use of the shorter bandage timer, but lets be real here...even if you could hire an npc that can replicate another player character 7x GM tank (parry/resist/etc..) and deck them out in full invul plate, there is still no way they will be able to take the blows of most bosses like dragons do.

In my honest opinion, if there were just an increase of slayers to bring down the total cost on the market would be a great start. Then toss in a few lower level boss mobs, something a dexxer could handle with some difficulty (does any of the new bosses from the tamer event even spawn in the world yet?) and you have a great foot in the right direction.

Armor! it is great that the dex penalties were reworked in the upcoming patch, I might even start to wear more plate these days...not sure have to test it out, but someone mentioned having slayer armor once...now that I feel in a better solution to survivability then having a carry along npc to heal.

Now how to combat the fact that tamers get more bond slots...that one I do not know, even if you were to implement a weapon dmg only instance...what would the reward be?...put out a bounty hunters scroll to access it (kill certain mobs...could be even the new boss mobs so that amply farming would have to be done) and slay your way thru the instance to what reward? a 4 week bless scroll for any weapon?

Anywho, just my two cents on the subject i care greatly about!

Thanks cero. The idea was never to "match" dragons and tamers. And I'm certain the idea to bless a weapon, for any matter of time, is the wrong path to take as it will ultimately take away from one of the main elements we all secretly love and hate about UO: the risk.

No, rather I say the reason this solution is better is because as Wulver pointed out, I believe, is that even with a blessed +25 valorite vanq slayer, you're still eating the dragon's claw and washing it down with a hot drought of fire breathe. However if you had 4 npc's in tow, if you can at least train them up, you can allow them to move in first.

I believe this solution is also true to the class of dexxer because it doesn't remove "hard mode" it just opens the door to more options to test hard mode in. You still have to get in there and heal you hirelings even more so than dragons because they will only be able to take 1-2 hits before they are critical.


I share lightshade's warning that Once you introduce blessing weapons, as Lightshade has pointed out eventually these items will lose value. Sure we'd all adjust to it, but I think we'd all be losing out more than we gain. I'm presenting this idea as a solution which does not take from one valid play style and give to another. If we bless weapons we are really taking away from thief class and murders who would then exclusively focus their targets on those who have not gained "the blessing" (ie new players). I don't think they would do this out of spite, it would just be a logical shift.

I agree that there's a problem, but I'm not sure I like this solution. As already mentioned, we're basically turning warriors into light tamers with this. Fun, but this is actually something you can already do. Warrior tamers are great - you just have to make some small sacrifices in your skill selections.

Dexxers, IMO, really face two main issues in PvM:

1) Survivability against upper tier monsters
2) Cost of gear lost upon death.

More slayer availability helps the second problem, but does not help the first.

As an alternate proposal, have all plate armor greatly reduce magic & breath damage from monsters. Enough so that even store-bought plate would have a noticeable effect and mid-level magic plate would let you tangle with lich lords. This would also give plate a niche, which it badly needs.

It's not a bad idea, but.....

I dislike the idea of a npc being bonded for several reasons.... How would this impact the player bonding slots? As stands right now
you are allowed one slot...For more, you need to do the Bonding Quest, or pay for a slot, which the price is usually out of reach for the newer player.
How many of these npc hirelings would a player be allowed. One per-character? One per-account? Or one per-Player?
If a thief turns grey, would their hireling turn grey....Would a murder's npc take the murder count or the murderer? Or Both?
How much would it cost for such a hireling? If the cost very much, again would be out of reach for the newer player.
Would the hireling be human npc or a different type/species ?
I do like the idea of being able to "hire" a npc to help fight...but not for it to be bonded. (and sorry Jupiter), but yes, I

Not sure why all my post didn't show...... but I do feel this is tram like...
I feel the hireing of a npc should be more for the newer player... Folks who are established already have advantages, can buy slayer weapons, WW,s , great armor, etc. So if the cost of the npc hireling is high, it's more of a advantage for established players.

Thanks
Westra

Sorry, my intentions are never to "match" dragons and tamers with the melee classes, the game needs the diversity! Otherwise everyone is just a tamer Just feeling bitter as a dexxer with the whole tamer quest and bonding slots...who knows maybe Telly-man has something in the works for the hackers and slashers like myself...just feel the risk vs reward side of things now favors the tamers even more.

On a side note: Thanks Basoosh for the like, got me a trophy for it !