Inflation

Discussion in 'Renaissance Discussion' started by Dalavar, Aug 6, 2015.

  1. Dalavar

    Dalavar Well-Known Member
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    I dunno, I'd love to pay 2013 prices for server rares with my stack of 2015 gp.

    [​IMG]
  2. Basoosh

    Basoosh Well-Known Member
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    Inflation, or supply/demand? The supply of server births doesn't grow, but the number of past and present players that covet these items always continues to grow.
  3. Gideon Jura

    Gideon Jura Well-Known Member
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  4. Dalavar

    Dalavar Well-Known Member
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    I think the supply of server births does grow (anniversary, etc.), but the number of players doesn't (at least for 18 months or so)? Meanwhile, we see a pretty clear trend of gold growth:

    [​IMG]

    Right, but the price of a given item over time going up is what reflects inflation. That was my point about paying 2013 prices with my 2015 pile of gold.
  5. Maltman

    Maltman Active Member

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    The only way to beat inflation is to create sandals that are so gaudily, so horrendously, so mercilessly retina meltingly neon hued that it crashes the shard! Make them worth a billion gold and watch as the ten richest players become the ten poorest players overnight in a frenzied attempt to attain these sandals.


    On an aside: What would Karl Marx think of the UO economy?
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  6. Gideon Jura

    Gideon Jura Well-Known Member
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  7. Plankton

    Plankton Active Member
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    Gideon is obviously a member of the ruling oligarchy seeking to keep us proletariat repressed!
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  8. Maltman

    Maltman Active Member

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    But I payed a newb 500k to talk dirty to me for an hour and a half on mumble. Doesn't that count for something??
  9. Gideon Jura

    Gideon Jura Well-Known Member
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  10. Gideon Jura

    Gideon Jura Well-Known Member
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  11. Codus

    Codus Well-Known Member

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    Heretic, I feel the need to rebut you:

    That's called "capitalism". If you wanted everyone to have the same it would be "communism". Our economy in Ultima is capitalistic. We have vendors, which if you get/buy a PREMIUM place to host them (yew) then you make more then a guy who's vendor is in on Bald Island. That makes the house worth more. And you don't spend the time making a crafter you can't BOD which results in very lucrative rewards like Mask Dye and CBD's and runics. All of which is an option for you... noone's stopping you.

    In the real world, some people happen to have more money then others. People with more money can buy those curved 4k tv's at best buy, while others can't afford cable in the first place. That's how economics work - don't hate the players, hate the game, or get better at it.

    I have one tamer, one t-mapper, one crafter who isn't complete, a thief or two, a terrrible pvper, a peace dexxer, 3 fishers, I just cleared 2 million gold. I don't triple box anything but fishing for zylers tourny and I double box tmaps - one guy pops em, one guy kills the mobs.


    Again - the worlds not even. Some people can play at work, others can't. Some don't work. Other's can only play at nights. Some can only play weekends. IT WILL NEVER BE EVEN!

    The solution isn't removing something that only some can do because it offends you on some level close to jealousy. Someone is always going to have more then you.. in game and the real world. Ill never own a Aston Martin - doesn't mean they shouldnt exist. Just like i'll never buy a 5 million gold fortress ... doesn't mean other people shouldn't have the option to.
  12. Delitem

    Delitem Member

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    So you don't think there will be a long-term problem? Triple boxing isn't the problem. Social inequality isn't the problem; i agree that is inevitable in a game of this nature. The problem is that an economy like this one needs mechanisms to take gold out of the economy (which is currently only done in minimal amounts), and viable mechanisms do not exist here. There are plenty of ways to do this without taking anything away that has already been given to players.

    Examples of how Blizzard removed gold from the economy:

    http://www.engadget.com/2012/07/06/wow-archivist-an-expensive-history-of-gold-sinks/
  13. Codus

    Codus Well-Known Member

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    Delitem - I do 100% believe that there is a problem, I guess i wasn't clear on that. I just think that "Triple boxing and Tamers" are not the issue even though everyone loves to get on that witch hunt. Gold sinks can/should be implimented and that in a population like this which doesn't really grow since we play a 17 year old, the money doesn't change hands fast enough.

    Why not just a Plat Store kinda of thing for gold? Different items so that plat/gold conversion rate isn't dictated by the server and can flux between 6.5 to 7.5 as it does on its own now. People love to spend there plats on deco/trammy... why not gold?

    You're always going to have those who horde their gold, just like people horde plat now. Horders ganna horde, but i know I'd pay gold for some of those plat items faster then i would buy the plat from players to buy them from the plat vendor.
  14. Delitem

    Delitem Member

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    I'm fully on board with you. Do I think tamers are overpowered in comparison to other templates? Absolutely. But nerfing isn't something a server should do if they care about player retention. I've always been of the opinion that if there are groups that are considered the "haves" and the "have nots", it's always better served to give to the "have nots" to make them "haves" instead of taking things away and making everyone "have nots." Nerfing tamers will not increase the viability of a dexxer. They'll still struggle in the same areas they do now. So why not give them some additional content that they won't struggle in?
  15. Blaise

    Blaise Well-Known Member
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    Too few things removing gold from the economy will ALWAYS add up to a problem in the long term. How long, depends on how few outlets there are in concert with how easy it is to obtain gold. Presently it is still very easy to obtain gold and there's not even remotely enough useless shit to spend gold on.
  16. Andersonius

    Andersonius Well-Known Member
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    I would think there are multiple things at work there. Now as far as the population being the same I tend to disagree on that. Chris has recently stated something to the tune of 800-1000 unique IP's logging in every day. I remember a year or more ago when he said something to the tune of 600 unique ips a day or something or other. I am not looking at a concrete graph or anything for this so I apologize for my rough guesstimations. Now yes we are seeing relatively the same amount of accounts logged in at a certain time but I think the DDOS has changed things a bit. For instance; once the DDOS starting getting bad there I wasn't even worrying about having my chars logged in all the time because I would just lose connection on a couple or all three accounts anyway. I have a lost a little welfare plat in the process but its whatever. I am not meaning to stray off point here but I would imagine there are others that started doing the same as I. I would tend to think that the amount of people that keep all accounts logged in 24/7 has tended to remain the same despite an obvious population increase where as there are many many people that don't even bother keeping characters logged in for the purpose.

    Our population has certainly grown. Sure there are some things that maybe there are a couple people willing to pay more because they have the gold are that willing to get it. Something like a server birth is going to cost more now than it did 2 years ago because of supply/demand. There were definitely less people playing then and even less with the amount of gold that they have now. Also the willingness of the seller to sell at a certain price point because of an un-established market for said rare is a factor in that as well. So perhaps the graph indicates a combination of all the factors.

    I am not trying to say there is no inflation. I suppose to a certain degree that is inevitable. Where so many servers faltered however was with there pay stores where you can buy gold with real money and items with real money which makes the inflation situation balloon out of control. AFK resource gathering yata yata so on and so forth. There are so many points that this server has targeted since its inception that combat the inflation problem even to this day now and have done quite well in doing so if I may say so.
  17. Andersonius

    Andersonius Well-Known Member
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    Bring on the premium mask dye./sandals/other cool stuff gold sink!!
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  18. Dalavar

    Dalavar Well-Known Member
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    The first part could plausibly be supply and demand, but frankly I'd trust that chart a lot more than a claim of 1,000 unique IPs logging in per day. The second part of your sentence is literally the definition of inflation.
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  19. Andersonius

    Andersonius Well-Known Member
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    Certainly a graph leaves concrete data on the table. If Chris says 800-1000 unique ips log in every day I will trust what he says. Now of course there will be holes in that a bit. You will have some people that log in at work and then go and log in at home after work etc. etc. There are certainly more people playing than there were 2 years ago. Really if you think about it right now our daily population is near an all time high and it is the middle of summer where there is generally quite a drop off. It is only a guess and certainly a wish but perhaps this winter we will get 800+ on at any given time!
  20. Bogugh

    Bogugh Well-Known Member

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    [​IMG]

    If we're going to talk "active players," then let's compared apples to apples here.

    What do you think these numbers looked like in 2013? What do you think they will look like in 2017?

    The largest gold sink in the game is probably people quitting.
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