Item Identification function and skill use

Okay maybe we can cut this short. What's your problem ?

Can you not understand that I don't care about a mount enough to go to a stablemaster and buy one ?

Back to your definition of Trammel. Are you aware what you are implying ?

The logical consequence would be that anyone who behaves differently under fel rules as he would under tram rules is "VERY Trammel".
You can't seriously mean that. Do you keep a well maintained UNBLESSED runebook on your char all the time because you don't care about the risk of loosing it ?
Probably not ... replace the runebook with a vanq spear or any other very valuable item. Do you see that people don't want to deal with the potential hassles of losing them ?
In case you do, we've come down to a question of value. You don't care about losing a 700gp ride but it would bug me because I like to keep my money together. So unless I risk 5k worth of equipment & mount, I'm trammie ? Or is it 50k ? 500k ?

Let me fill in the blanks in your equation just to make it clear.
Action A - Wear black sandals while dungeon hunting
Consequence B - Die and loose the sandals

Now let me correct your definition:

If you agree with me on the statement that fel gameplay means you have to learn to calculate the risk into all of your decisions, can't you see that that's exactly what I'm doing when I'm choosing do to my traveling on foot ? A ride is a convenience, it's optional. You act like I pull myself out of felucca just by not riding a llama - but get over it, I'm playing by the rules and this time didn't even shed a tear about them !

Although Recall/Gate was in place before Trammel, those are still VERY VERY "trammie" things. If ANYONE wants to talk about not making this server "so trammie", they should focus on removing recall/gate first and foremost.

I wouldn't treat gate and recall the same. Recall is just too widely available and allows anyone to just *poof* out of any situation into nowhere.

Gate on the other hand does need some skill spent on magery and quite a lot of mana for the average fighter. It takes much longer to cast and you can not use it to escape so easily. Dispel on Gates should be removed of course ! As a figher, you have to sacrifice quite some stat points for enough int to cast gate and some precious skill points for mana even if you cast it off a scroll. As a mage - well you have the benefit of being able to gate, but you can't just escape with it. People can follow through. You better watch out from where you open your gates and so on ... I would love to frequently have gates popping up in cities giving me the chance to slip in and find out what's behind it. Maybe a house that's worth camping at because the owner is currently active ...

You are wrong. Absolutely wrong.

I carry a rune book, with all my preferred spots -- unblessed -- on all my chars. It takes me about 1k in regs, runes, and blank scrolls to make, I dunno, 10 copies at once. Then I can stash them back at my house, in a secure, so if I lose one I just grab another and move on with life. Yes, I absolutely do take things out that will 'hurt' if I lose them. I will do the same with any weapon, armor, whatever. Because, its just pixels -- and not just that, they're easily attained. I grinded out nearly a mil gold + over 1k items farming liches this weekend.... in 4 days. Why would I care that I lost a vanq, or some invuln armor, or GOD FORBID a runebook? Isn't the point of the game to enjoy yourself, and not to become paranoid that every corner brings with it the complete and utter loss of everything?

And further, if you're losing enough of your stuff every time you go out that this is actually an issue, plan better. You're doing it wrong.

You can try to get into semantics trying to break down my explanation further -- the problem here is you are taking it personal, as an attack. Its not that.

You say its 'common sense' -- but really, lets be realistic. We're talking about pixels. Pixels that take almost no time, nor effort, to earn. If you are really so tight-assed about losing a few precious items, perhaps Trammel IS the place for you.

As far as the mount thing goes -- you're further missing my point. THERE IS NO INVOLVED COST. You can tame one yourself -- every 15 mins -- at the skara sheep pen for a horse. If you want an ossie or a llama, go out to T2A, they're everywhere. Don't have a tamer? Ask one -- and don't be a dink -- and someone will likely give you one. I would -- I have a stable of like 10 of them for just that purpose. There is no 'feeding upkeep' -- keep it under your ass and it never goes away. You are NOT restricted to only buying horses from a stablemaster for 700gp -- though 700gp is a PALTRY sum. Now, here's the kicker. You know how you were complaining about upkeep? Do you know how many items of food it actually takes to bond a horse? 2 APPLES. FEED IT TWICE, ONCE WHEN YOU GET IT, ONCE A WEEK LATER, AND YOU NOW HAVE A PERMANENT MOUNT. NO UPKEEP FEES.

Allow me to break this down for you very simply: Being 'Trammel' means AVOIDING systems that you consider inconvenient -- not working with and around them within the confines of the world around you. Avoiding the 'associated costs' with mount ownership, the way you keep adamantly defending it, is inherently Trammel.

Now, long one short: my problem is that you aren't even seeing how the fact that you treat all of these aspects of the world as a DETRIMENT to the shard, as something to be avoided, instead of actually utilizing them for their purpose and gaining the experience therein. You can hem and haw til you're blue in the face, but the simple fact is you are wrong.

This will be my last reply on this; if you want to continue this conversation, hit me on irc. I will explain myself more thoroughly, if you still aren't getting it.

He isn't going to be stocking up 1mil gold and 1k weapons in a weekend running around on foot.

i.e. recall and gate spells

Allow one last question - I will understand you a lot better if you simply answer this.

May I play the game the way I enjoy it without being insulted ?

Don't tell me trammie ain't a result here. And keep in mind I didn't complain in any way ...

You can. And I didn't call you a trammie, for the record. I said a comment you made, a specific set of actions, was one of the most 'Trammel' sounding explanations I've ever heard.

None of my comments in any way encroached on your ability to choose your way to play the game. I made that abundantly clear multiple times in my explanations. Again, you took it personal, whereas I simply saw a comment that I thought was funny and commented on it. If you take any of that as being insulted, you need thicker skin. The fact that while this thread was unfolding, we had plenty of civil discussion on IRC simultaneously, should have told you that I took none of this personal -- if I thought any less of you, I would let it be known. It just so happens that "I didn't have a mount cuz an ethy was too expensive" is one of the most hilarious things relating to UO I've ever read -- nothing more.

For the record as it relates to this thread: I like universal item ID. I could live without it, but it sure does make sorting and vending a lot more convenient.

This should be the point where you realize I don't take any of this personal either.

I will continue to challenge the usage of the word trammy whenever I feel it is used inappropriate.

Perhaps.

I'd like to make one more example though -- just to try to highlight my point, because while you still see it as offensive use, I still see it as 100% appropriate in the context I used it.

You seem to see this discussion about risk vs reward as black and white, where in reality its shades of grey. The perfect example was where you used my own quote against me:

Yes, thats all well and good, except 2 major mistakes here. 1) you went to a dungeon without blessing your favorite pair of sandals, and 2) the original comparison was not talking about a quarter million gp's worth of footwear. We were talking about less than 1k -- or free -- and that STILL constitutes more risk than you're willing to put forth. In your example, the foolish move was not not being prepared -- which has nothing to do with whether you actually wore your sandals out and about or not. If they weren't blessed, you probably should accept the potential for risk. If that potential loss is too large for you, avoid it.

HOWEVER, that does not mean that you avoid ALL risk because there is a potential for pratfall. When you start making comparisons to high ticket items, to what is essentially basic low level supplies, and act like the loss of the basic low level supplies is a major hit -- it makes me wonder how you would react if you were actually to slip up in any meaningful way. Again, levity to the situation -- we're talking about a tame that you can purchase for 750gp or below across the entire map; or what can be tamed (or given) for free. We're not talking about an item that took effort, time, or even pursuit to achieve.

To make the point more clear: What ARE you willing to lose when you go out in the field? Do you leave the house practically naked, using NPC weapons, because you're afraid that what you have will be gone? What is the cutoff value for when you don't worry about the loss? 1k? 5k? 100k? And if you are going out practically, or literally, naked -- then what do you do with the items you collect in game? What is their purpose if you're unwilling to utilize them?

To end this argument once and for all :


You don't wanna know what I had to do for this horse ... Orcs are twisted, sick freaks.