Official Faction Discussion / Planned Changes Thread

Discussion in 'Era Discussion' started by Chris, Apr 26, 2018.

  1. Chris

    Chris Renaissance Staff
    Renaissance Staff

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    Proposed Faction Changes
    This thread will serve as the primary discussion thread for the upcoming faction changes to the server. Each item is listed in RFC (Request for Comment) format with a number assigned to each. If you want to comment on any specific item simply reference the numbers listed below.

    If you wish to suggest an item not listed here you are welcome to do so as well preferably in a similar format for easy review.

    While we understand that factions is a dramatic and contentious situation and a lot of the thing posted below can cause arguments between players. Please avoid commenting on various items listed below with a focus on how it affects past situations, interactions with other players, or opinions of an idea based on punishing people you do not personally like.

    Keeping that in mind players should consider the following when posting.
    - Is this applicable for the Renaissance server?
    - Thoughts on the items listed to discuss?
    - Will it improve upon the system OSI designed?
    - Will it be easy to understand and approachable for all players?

    RFC #1 : New Faction Rank Item - Faction Shrouds
    Idea: Allow players of rank 10 (Primarily faction commanders) to purchase non transferable shrouds in the color of their faction as a sign of their rank and to encourage competition inside of, and between various factions.
    CM_Robe.png Minax_Robe.png SL_Robe.png TB_Robe.png
    Implementation: Add these items to a shop accessible from inside each faction base that would have a rank requirement and silver cost. The item would have a timed existence and be deleted once the use timer is up. If a player loses his faction commander rank he may continue to wear the item until the timer on the current item is up.
    Specifics to Discuss:
    - General Idea
    - Item Lifespan (Proposed, 1 week)
    - Item Cost (Silver)
    Notes:
    - These items would not be able to be transfer in any way to avoid players obtaining but not being able to use them.
    - When clicked they would indicate how much longer the item will last.
    Player Comments:
    - Make these available to all factioneers. Staff: This would negate the special nature of the item and while it would encourage people to join factions if there was no effort require to get said item (other than silver) then everyone would have one and nothing would change in factions. Additionally we do not want everyone, even in factions, to be running around in one of these things. Our ability to add them (a non UOR item) needs to be matched by the rarity and zero economic value of said items. We are open to discussing a slight expansion in the accessibility to said items but they lose their value if you do not have to work, and work hard for them. Also keep in mind this will be combined with a revamped faction point system, point decay, and elections to resolve the problems of the past where players are essentially permanently faction commanders. ​


    RFC #2 : New Faction Rank Item - Faction Ethereals
    Idea: Allow players of rank 8-10 to purchase faction hued ethereal mounts. These would have a faction rank use requirement and exist for a limited period of time.
    CM_Mount.png Minax_Mounts.png SL_Mounts.png TB_Horse.png
    Implementation: Add these items to a shop accessible from inside each faction base that would have a rank requirement and silver cost. The item would have a timed existence and be deleted once the use timer is up. If a player loses his faction rank he may continue to use the item until the timer on the current item is up. These will need to dismount the owner should they be riding the mount once the timer expires to deter trying to ride the timed mount forever. Most likely checked on login.
    Specifics to Discuss:
    - General Idea
    - Item Lifespan (Proposed, 1 week)
    - Item Cost (Silver)
    Notes:
    - These items would not be able to be transfer in any way to avoid players obtaining but not being able to use them.
    - When clicked they would indicate how much longer the item will last.
    - Would need to dismount owner once the item expires.​

    RFC #3 : Additional Faction Based Rank Items
    Idea: Explore more options for high level rank based items for factions to encourage competition and faction balance.
    Specifics to Discuss:
    - Items that would suit this goal, could be time limited and purchased for silver.
    - Can not include permanent items.
    - Rank requirement for the suggested item
    - Functionality
    - Silver Cost / Duration of Use.​

    RFC #4 : Guild Functionality
    Idea: As part of a revamp of the guild system to create a hybrid between the classic T2A and the improved UOR models guilds would be modified with the following changes.
    - Guilds can be assigned a specific faction from the guild menu, not from assumption based on the faction of the guild master.
    - A Faction Guild can include non faction characters.
    - Players will be able to control their removal from a faction via their profile. So if the guildmaster adds/changes the faction linked to a guild players can choose to be switched to the new faction or be removed from the guild preserving their existing faction.
    Specifics to Discuss:
    - Potential problems
    - How to protect guild members from a guildmaster making a change to their faction.
    - Information available to players when they join a faction aligned guild.
    Notes:
    - This is 90% coded already.​

    RFC #5 : Faction Join / Leave Functionality
    Idea: Currently players can choose to leave a faction and are forced to wait a period of time before the leave process is complete (currently 3 days). Under a new system the timer to leave a faction would be increased to 7 days. However the timer would start the moment you join a faction. So a player can leave a faction immediately as long as they have been in that faction for at least 7 days.
    This would allow for players to move in and out of factions more immediately while resolving problems with players changing factions to quickly.
    Specifics to Discuss:
    - Balance issues
    - Faction Points (See RFC #6)
    Notes:
    - This is 90% coded already.​

    RFC #6 : Faction Points - Leave / Join Faction
    Idea: Allow players when leaving a faction to retain a portion of their earned faction points. This would help encourage players to actively switch factions to balance out competition and potentially achieve the rank required to qualify for the new rewards in RFC #1/2/3.
    Specifics to Discuss:
    - Percentage of points that can be retained.
    - Impact on faction rankings if players move between factions with retained points.
    - Expiration mechanics for players not in a faction with retained faction points.
    Notes:
    - This would go along with RFC #6 allowing for more player mobility in factions to provide balance.​

    RFC #7 : Faction Point Decay
    Idea: Revamp the faction point decay system to better suit the Renaissance server. The current method (RunUO default) clearly does not work properly. However we need to decide on exactly how it should work and how points should decay.
    Specifics to Discuss:
    - Proper function of a point decay system.
    - Percentage/Value of points to decay per time period.
    - Time period in which to check for decay.
    Notes:
    - This change would be paired with improvements in the faction data that is exported to the website.​

    RFC #8 : Faction Elections
    Idea: I believe currently there is an election for faction commander every 3 days. This currently works as designed however due to the issue in RFC #8 if the commander never logs in apparently his points never decay. By addressing that problem and possibly increasing the election period to every 24 hours we could provide more encouragement for players to strive for faction commander status.
    Specifics to Discuss:
    - Election mechanics
    - Access to information to gauge the results.
    - Election Check Period, Daily, weekly, etc.​

    RFC #9 : Faction Points
    Idea: Review the method in which faction points are gained to discourage methods in which players "cheese" the system by joining their alts to another faction for easy kills. Or other such methods to gain points with minimal effort.
    Specifics to Discuss:
    - Will need a detailed review of the current system.
    - Factors to check when determining if faction points can be awarded.
    - Rewards for killing a much higher ranked member of the opposing faction.
    - Relation to decisions made in RFC #8
    - Methods to gain points in ways other than combat? Capturing sigils, etc?
    Notes:
    - I will create an additional thread (and link it here) covering the exact current mechanics of point gain from faction activities.​

    RFC #10 : Faction Traps
    Idea: Adjust the placement logic for faction traps so that any faction trap can only be placed # tiles away from an existing trap. This would discourage the creation of 2 tile death traps that result in certain death while still keeping traps a functional part of town defense.
    Specifics to Discuss:
    - Range to other traps
    - Possible expansion of trap use to account for the change
    - Reduced costs of traps to account for the change
    Note:
    - This should be matched with the discussion of faction bases.​

    RFC #11 : Faction Guards
    Ideas:
    - Fix the problems in which pets ignore faction guards (or discover why this is)
    - Require that faction guards be "stationed" in a specific location. If the guard is lured/roams outside this area they will return to their home location to continue guarding that location.
    - Implement a cooldown between guard placements for faction administrators to avoid the problem of guard spam in combat situations.
    - Disallow faction administrators to place guards when they have recently engaged in combat. (same rules for logging out)
    - Review general guard functionality, placement limits.
    Specifics to Discuss:
    - Other problems not listed with faction guards.
    - Amount of guards each town should be allowed to have.
    - Cost of said guards.
    - Their combat functionality (Ergo bonus damage to summons/pets for higher ranking/more expensive guards.
    Notes:
    - This is roughly 50% coded (placement mechanics, return home logic)​

    RFC #12 : Faction Vendors - Placement / Functionality
    Idea: Disallow faction vendors to be placed in locations in which they have an effect on faction combat, player travel. As they are immortal players have no method to address them when placed in various locations.
    Specifics to Discuss:
    - Placement Locations that should be restricted.
    - Range in which they can be placed to other faction vendors.
    - Possibility of expanding this mechanic more to encourage the setup and management of faction shops in controlled towns which provide benefits to the controlling faction based on use of the shop. (Related to RFC on town control)
    - Additional items that could be added to the vendors to improve usefulness?​

    RFC #13 : Faction Mount Vendor
    Idea: Provide the faction horse breeder with the functionality to resurrect faction pets using silver much like normal players can using gold via the veterinary vendor.
    Specifics to Discuss:
    - Cost
    - General Concerns​

    RFC #14 : Faction Pet Stat Loss
    Idea: While tamers have always been a small part of factions pet bonding can create some balance issues on our hybrid server. To balance this out players who engage in factions and have their pets active would face a higher degree of pet skill loss on death. This would still allow the use of pets in factions but would ensure that those pets would be less effective in combat after repeated deaths.
    Specifics to Discuss:
    - Percentage of stats to penalize for each death.
    - Possible modifiers on breath attacks for pets in faction PvP situations.
    Notes:
    - Bonding is very customized on Renaissance. So it is valid to discuss ideas to keep faction combat focused in a Player vs Player arena with limited impact from a tamers pets. ​

    RFC #15 : Faction Bases
    Idea: General discussion on the problems with each faction base, what can be done to address them and what options, if any, exist to provide a bit more balance to faction bases.
    Specifics to Discuss:
    - Adjustments to existing bases?
    - Allow players to design their own bases as long as they follow a certain set of rules. (Size of open area, pinch points size/amount, etc)
    - Small adjustments to fix problems with each base.
    - How to address the True Britannians problem without sacrficing Lord British's castle.
    - Address the use of boats, teleportation, and other problems with bases.
    Notes:
    - On OSI faction bases were a non issue because players could visit that spot in trammel. As we do not have trammel we cannot take locations away from non faction players. ​

    RFC #16 : Faction Sigil Mechanics
    Idea: Adjust the faction sigil mechanics further to better represent UO in 2018. Additionally provide each faction base with a tool they can use to see exact timers for information relative to their current actions. Such as corruption time, etc. But only information they would have access to already.
    Specifics to Discuss:
    - Town capture time duration. (Currently 7 hours)
    - Town ccontrol duration (Currently 3 days)
    - Corruption mechanics
    - Contested town capture mechanics and timing
    - General mechanics
    Notes:
    The exist system on Renaissance is already heavily modified to speed up a variety of timers to account for the unique free shard environment. ​

    RFC #17 : Faction Town Control
    Idea: Review the benefits a faction receives when controlling a town.
    Specifics to Discuss:
    - Benefits that could be provided that would not affect non faction players in a confusing or negative way
    - Addition of faction flags at various locations in the controlled town to signify who currently controls the town.
    - Special privileges for the members of the controlling faction?
    - General Ideas
    Notes:
    - Town control having an effect on vendor prices is not something up for discussion as we do not have the trammel facet here. ​

    Moved Faction Town control to RFC 17 due to a numbering mistake.
    Last edited: Apr 27, 2018
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  2. syncopations

    syncopations Active Member

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    My biggest concern is that factions is a gold and time sink at the moment. I really would like to see people make a living out of fighting. Maybe make a point system where we could see who won at the end of each month. Players and teams could be awarded with plats, gold, thropies according to their points.
    Last edited: Apr 27, 2018
  3. Chris

    Chris Renaissance Staff
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    Note: Don't quote my post in order to comment. Simply reference any comment you have with the RFC number of the item to allow for easy review by the staff and other players. As players comment on the various ideas I will be updating the listing with player input ideas as we work towards finalized changes.

    Ergo

    RFC #1: Good idea, but make sure they cost ### silver and only last 7 days.
    RFC #2: Etc, etc, etc
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  4. Balgami

    Balgami Well-Known Member
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    First of all thank you @Chris for putting factions on your radar and opening it to discussion.

    RFC #7-9: Perhaps a system similar to murder count can be in place, active members would need to maintain a high short amount to participate in management, long term counts can still be used for bragging rights and titles/items vs.

    RFC #14: Pet training is very simple with overnight macros so I am not sure if this is much of a nerf. I think a more direct combat nerf like dragons doing less damage to players or something more fundamental is necessary. I am super biased on this topic so I might not make healthy suggestions.

    RFC #14b(there are 2 14s): In regards to town control and management duties, perhaps the person returning the sigil to a town should be automatically granted sherif of that town. That way people who put in the effort to capture a sigil can be rewarded and the commander doesn't need to be on all the time to micro manage.
    Last edited: Apr 27, 2018
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  5. Lnomer

    Lnomer Well-Known Member

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    RFC1 - Good idea, but I think if we better offer death shrouds to every factioners its gonna take more attention cuz people like DS... Since All factions has 2 different colors with faction points and silver secondry color DS can be purchaseable even maybe which can give -2 - 3 armor extra like the defensive robe...

    RFC2 - Very nice idea

    RFC6 - If character A is commanding lord in Faction B and leaves that faction( if he has enough points and people following him) he can literally be the commanding lord of the opposed faction. Which can end up in drama... So I dont support retaining points in that sens....

    RFC7 - Balgami's idea about short long term counts on Faction points would be usefull I think. I support it

    RFC8 - 24 hours election period is too short. With points decaying there shouldn't be a problem and I think Commander voting can even be done every week or month so people can actually gather points and be competitive...

    RFC9 - I strickly believe that factions points should be gathered through: Killing opposing factioners - killing opposing faction guards, killing opposing faction pets(tames), faction monsters and capturing (stealing) sigils. (So that a thief - tamer etc can also rank up and challange the commander) It will also attract different type of players to join factions.

    RFC10 - Big problem about traps is that once you put a trap - you can not remove it. You need an opposing factioner to remove it so this should be fixed...

    RFC11 - Faction guards shouldn't be summoned while being in combat (suporting this one) Factin guards should also drop silver as loot, so killing them means something other than clearing path for sigils... (This will also make opposing factioners not spamm guards which will make other factions silver rich)

    RFC14 -(Faction Pet Statloss) (There are 2 RFC14 btw) Tamers should be a part of the faction world in the name of base defenses if not base defenses are literally field fighting... COM and TB has guards advantages as town factions... So guards would be usefull for them, to be able to fight against it Tamers are most of the time the only chance and if you lower the damage on Pets vs factioners and give guards higher damage against pets its gonna be imbalanced I think.. Higher statloss is acceptable if it can be balanced with guards making less damage on players too.

    RFC14 - Town Control - Its not about trammel but what is weird is faction vendor mage's prices are same with regular vendors which IMO is not logical... And there is no benefit putting him there...So reg prices should be different IMO. Flags are a nice tat (supporting that idea)

    RFC 15 - I am still in favor of putting all faction fights in and arround couple of towns..And Getting all bases around Brit for example. But If thats not happening - Get all bases outside of GZ. No vendors - non factioners - guards around bases. Fix the walls so people won't be able to sail through walls. Fix the targetting issues. Fix the teleport problems... Well there are a lot to fix in bases. Trying to create own bases idea is super amazing but I think there would be some problems with some other bugs - exploits once we started creating our own bases.

    RFC 16 - IMO, All towns sigils should be stealable in a different day so there would be competition in all days.(This should be set up by the GM's for spesific days and times, some would be stealable in EU time zones, some in EST some in PST, all of the sigils days should be fixed prior. Lets say Saturday is Britain's day, But there had been a lot of fights so TB managed to corrupt it on Monday. The town should be again capturable on next Saturday so there wont be a certain period of time for secure town sigils ) The corruption period should be fairly short(1 hour maybe 2) so it gives chance to all factions from zergs to low numbered a chance with the correct planning...

    GL with the patch @Chris if you can make it its gonna be awesome
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  6. Ahirman

    Ahirman Well-Known Member
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    RFC #14 : Pets should die or immediately go into stat when their owner dies.
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  7. Celestrael

    Celestrael Member
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    RFC #1 : New Faction Rank Item - Faction Shrouds
    RFC #2 : New Faction Rank Item - Faction Ethereals
    RFC #3 : Additional Faction Based Rank Items

    Eh, okay. These things will pretty much only affect Pax Romain (which by reading this list, I think he's been a main contributor), most everyone else dies enough that their ranks don't climb high. I mean congrats to Pax for some shinies.

    I don't think factions need PvM-style progression to encourage participation. These awards should be available to everyone who has the silver to buy them. With this system I think everyone will just spend all their time running away because they don't wanna die and risk losing rank. That's not a great incentive for all out combat.

    RFC #4 : Guild Functionality
    RFC #5 : Faction Join / Leave Functionality
    RFC #6 : Faction Points - Leave / Join Faction

    I'm not sure how I feel about encouraging faction switching. At least in the current Faction environment I don't see anyone doing that. If things really blow up, then maybe. As it stands, there's pretty much a guild per faction.

    RFC #9 : Faction Points

    This could use some work. In the current system even if you participated in the dump, it seems only one or two players will credit for the kill. Also I think that it could encourage people to cross heal if healers could get credit as well. If the guy you recently healed (within 30-45 seconds?) makes a kill, you share in the credit.

    RFC #11 : Faction Guards

    A lot of these changes will be helpful, but I think the biggest thing that isn't being addressed is the big blue elephant in the room. Prevent guards from being able to go inside the bases of the two factions who are based in towns (Brit and CoM). An idea I was discussing with POTHEAD last night is a combination of tethering (which you mention here) and a restriction on how close they can be placed to the CoM/Brit faction bridges. Terminate the tether a few tiles short of the faction bridge. This will end the need for blue walls to block guards from running into bases.

    RFC #14 : Faction Pet Stat Loss

    Why are we penalizing a build, exactly?? Are you going to penalize mages and dexxers as well to make them less effective after each death? I know some vets are salty about the use of tamers in Factions but I think many others would strongly disagree with this move. This pretty much flies in the face of "play as you want" and "play within the limitations of the world". If anything at all, give them the same duration stat loss as the tamer, and it restores on the same timer.

    The tamers are mostly useful in sieges. In open field, they are hamstringed by the pet because if they run to fast (and in most cases, you're hauling ass all over the map) they lose the pet. I don't think any serious changes are required, I think the benefits of the tamer and the disadvantages balance out.

    RFC #15 : Faction Bases

    Letting players design a base is a slippery slope and could lead to all kinds of balance issues. I don't think that's a good idea.

    Existing bases just need small adjustments. Brit castle is fine, it's certainly more secure than Minax and CoM bases. The only thing it needs are the same water blockers that CoM base now has (this may have been implemented already) and the same buffer that I suggested above on guards. I think the rest of CoM would agree that the only thing it could use is maybe a few more faction-colored barricades in the hallway leading to our sigil posts to add some chokepoints since we currently have the "open cafe" design. Yew Crypts is fine. I don't know what Minax could use if anything, they can probably advise better on that.

    RFC #16 : Faction Sigil Mechanics

    1) 5 hour timer on capture would be a nice compromise between the US players and the EU players.
    2) I don't understand the value of having to have a "thief" remove a sigil from it's post (it's just sitting there, why do I need to be an experienced thief to pull it off?) I think all that it needs is that anyone can pull it down but there's a brief timer to pull it down. IE: Factioner double clicks the sigil, 10-15 second timer starts, if he isn't hit during that timer, the sigil moves to his pack. If he's hit, he has to restart the timer.

    Also this is more a wishlist thing that a pertinent change, but if there was a way to spread out the days that sigils become capturable it would be nice. For people like me who have inconsistent work schedules, I may or may not be able to play on the one day a week that's super hype because all the sigils are in play. Sigils are also the biggest stimuli for fights so having an objective daily would make for fights more regularly.


    All that said, we sincerely appreciate you taking an interest in helping factions. Faction drama aside, we all want factions to be successful and thriving and it's awesome you want to help us. Thanks Chris!
    Last edited: Apr 27, 2018
  8. Rextacy

    Rextacy Well-Known Member
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    RFC1 : shrouds should be available to all factioners to boost morale. Make a darker hue available to the commander.
    Cost 1000 silver for a life span of 1 week.


    RFC4: If a guild wishes to leave their current faction to join another there should be a cool down period to join the other faction.
    Duration: 3-7 days
    Otherwise guilds can join another faction, and if they have enough members, they could try to take it over just so the faction they left from could win and/or benefit from it.

    RFC11: Let pets/summons attack faction guards

    RFC14 - Faction pet stat loss:
    A factions pets should receive a temporary stat loss just like a factioner does now. Stats on the pets who recieve the stat loss could be HP/Strength/Int/magery(if the pet has it) at a 25% decrease for a duration of 5 minutes in order to make it so that they cannot enter right back into the heat of battle as soon as they get back up.

    RFC15: Faction bases

    I think the bases how they are now are fine honestly. Creating whole new bases could lead into more problems and possible exploits to the certain base later down the road.
    Could make some adjustments on the current basses now regarding the guards, being able to get through the walls via boat, and being able to capture a sigil from a base where the sigils are on the second floor and are able to be captureable from the 1st floor.

    RFC16: the capture period for sigils should be reduced from 7 hours to 3-3.5 hours. This will allow people to not have to wait around long periods of time to defend a sigil. Alot of people cannot be on the long duration of time that it is at now.
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2018
  9. Evil Dead

    Evil Dead Well-Known Member
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    Thanks @Chris for creating an official thread and I think your key points to discuss are spot on.

    RFC#1: I agree with @Lnomer standard faction hue death shrouds for all members and I think a special hue for the Commanding Lord only would be awesome.

    RFC#2: Love the idea of ethereal faction mounts but wouldn't have a problem if they were permanent items just you would have to maintain a certain rank to mount them.

    RFC#8: Decrease the amount of points you need to run for election. With the current size and activity of factions it's a long progress to obtain the amount to run for the election.

    RFC#11: 100% Let pets/summons attack faction guards.

    RFC#14: I don't have a problem with pet damage or ability to use them in factions because everyone has the fair opportunity to use them. They create great siege/defense weapons and makes those battles interesting. Although I wouldn't have a problem with some sort of a harsher punishment for using pets though like you stated dealing with their skill loss or some kind of disabled period of time to get them back in the fight.

    RFC#15: Move TBs base to Lord British's castle where it belongs.

    RFC#16: Town capture time duration cut to at least half - 3.5 hours.

    Also would a scheduled live discussion via IRC/Discord with you @Chris and anyone interested in factions be a possibility? Mainly to discuss the urgency of what needs done asap and what can be implemented over time.
    Last edited: Apr 27, 2018
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  10. Hapa

    Hapa Active Member
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    guilds being in faction and in o/c in the same time!
  11. Larloch

    Larloch Well-Known Member

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    @Chris you have (2) RFC#14's

    RFC #14 : Faction Town Control
    I still believe that the faction controlling the town should have the ability to control the taxes on ALL goods sold in that town.

    "Benefits that could be provided that would not affect non faction players in a confusing or negative way"
    All new players generally start in Ocllo, where there is no factions. Along with Cove, Bucs, T2A & Hidden Valley. There are plenty of non faction towns they can utilize. There is no reason the factions shouldn't have complete control over taxes for the town they control. That's what should be at the heart of all of this, control. As far as confusion, 99% of people either use the forums or IRC. They will get the answers they are seeking.
  12. Valrick

    Valrick Well-Known Member
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    Maybe if it is possible, make faction pets deal reduced damage in the same manner that instanced events do.

    @Chris I know we talked about future adjustments to tamers in the sense of pvp. Will those adjustments equate close to this?
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  13. Celestrael

    Celestrael Member
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    Making changes to tamers isn’t fixing factions, it’s forming combat into the image a specific group has of what it should be like.

    If tamers were overpowered, everyone would be playing one. But you almost never see them in the field. What do you see? Stun scribes, stun scribes everywhere.

    They aren’t practical for fighting outside a base. A fight will start in East Brit and a minute later you’re fighting in the Graveyard. It’s impossible to keep up leading pets around.

    The ones saying nerf tamers are the same ones who will walk around Guard zergs (and are the same ones who usually hold the towns).

    Tamers are like Animists back on Dark Age of Camelot. Turrets specializing in defense but are useless in the field. Add the same stat loss that the faction tamer gets and call it a day.
  14. Chris

    Chris Renaissance Staff
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    This is a non faction related issue. We need to review how pets should behave once their owner dies in relation to commands such as guard/kill/etc. This will be addressed in a larger review down the road as we also address players spamming pet commands at a staggering pace or using AFK characters to sit in a spot with 3 pets spamming "all guard me" "all kill".
    Balgami likes this.
  15. Chris

    Chris Renaissance Staff
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    No changes are being discussed to tamers in general. The discussion is specifically related to the use of a tamer in a faction, and penalties to that players pets when they die in combat (assumed to be faction combat, say fighting a faction guard).
  16. scuba

    scuba Well-Known Member
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    I would be against harsher penalties for tamers in factions for example having harsher statloss penalties. I have a feeling some kind of bug would be introduced for people who just enjoy pvm

    Would it be possible Chris just to not allow people with the skill animal taming animal lore to join factions
    Althorn, NerK, crazydaze and 4 others like this.
  17. Ahirman

    Ahirman Well-Known Member
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    I joined factions to pvp, if I wanted to pvm I would get on my tamers and hit a dungeon.

    I have 3 tamers and could easily join up all 3 and just sit in the sigil room tripple boxing. ;)
  18. Celestrael

    Celestrael Member
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    I was addressing Valrick, Ahir and Balgami’s suggested dps nerfs or Scuba’s suggestion tamers be barred all together.

    I agree that the same faction stat loss a player gets would be more than fair and I don’t think anyone would argue otherwise. But punitive measures like permanent stat loss, nerfs, or barring them from participating isn’t reasonable at all.
    wylwrk likes this.
  19. Celestrael

    Celestrael Member
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    If it’s not your playstyle then don’t do it, but your playstyle shouldn’t affect other people’s playstyle. If you wanna be on a diet, good for you. But that don’t mean I shouldn’t be allowed to eat my donut because you don’t want to eat donuts
  20. scuba

    scuba Well-Known Member
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    Dragons are quite OP dude. Even my stun punch tamer melts almost everything on stun punch.

    I am against the nerf just because of unforeseen things that may happen to pvmers I would just rather have them barred from factions all together.

    If this is possible Chris I think anyone with the skills animal taming animal lore should be barred from joining a faction if you feel like you NEED to have a tamer chaos and order is still available

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