Proposal: True test of socialism vs darwinism

also I think your problem is the people who you are stealing from. Must people understand if your outside of town there is a chance your loosing your shit. But your must likely stealing from someone buying some deco at a player vendor or using the bank or just chatting in town and there is no warning, no chance to run. Like mentioned above lots of people play this game for many reasons. If people don't want to partake in pvp they can avoid it pretty easly enough that it's not enough of a bother to make them quit or not want to play. But make it too ez to steal whatever you want and people would avoid contact with anyone completely (more then they already do) and I think it's more important to encourage players to get together, hang out, make friends etc.

I can tell you for sure that the constant pestering of thieves is one reason you will almost never see me at Moon glow bank. I don't look down at thieves but when it's a pack of vultures constantly annoying you at some point you just say screw it and avoid the area all together.

The only thing I remember having trouble with was 10 stone items sometimes or having people accidentally kill you with a guard line in the bank macro

disarm is another doozy, combine fails with that and fails with stealing and it sucks. (ie if you combined the 5-6 fails I had in a row the other day on a war fork with disarm fails, it'd be a crap fest)

So you want trammel for thieves and fel for pks? And there are barely any thieves here compared to prodo. And as usual when the mechanics don't fix the problem for you, it's just a few easy steps for you to thief proof yourself 100%.

I think you're over reacting to his statement I think he's talking more about keeping appropriate balance between thieves and community.

800 player kills a month


and here we are with the convo back on keeping thieves nerfed


tsk tsk

What I think you're missing is what the core of this debate (and most of the threads like this one) are really about. It's community vs anarchy. I think I can say that just about all of us in the shard are attracted to the ability of anarchy to be part of the game world, that being said there has to be a balance between the two sides of the coin. You want to make it about pks are worse then thieves, others want to say it's the other way around, but in reality it's the collective effect of both of them that needs to stay in balance with the order of community.

yet pks have leaderboards, are far more prevalent in numbers, do not face the challenge of occupation, do not have mechanic nerfs compared to real Uo. As a general rule of thumb tend to travel in packs. And so on and so forth.


Point being a fel server shouldn't nerf thieves or pks, but thieves are nerfed while pks have perks.

Main point of the thread, people aren't going to stop even for a month, staff blames thieves falsely, though thieving mechanics need to be fixed for the better in order to properly align with classic UO.


When you come in defense of the pks but then start throwing out why thieves need to be nerfed, that's when I'll start throwing out why pks need to be nerfed. In reality, I don't want to see either. Both are a vital part to a non trammel UO. The game itself has been changed to keep thieves in check while offering incentives to pk (bragging rights through leaderboards, protected cys and runebooks, can gate hop after attacking people, so on and so forth)

So by jumping on the x is why thieves need to be kept in x, you're essentially supporting trammel and nerfs for thieves while wanting the option to pk freely. Far more people are murdered than are stolen from, If the claim that thieves are driving people off of the server is made by staff, then I'm pointing out no, it's pks. This is just to protect the class, I think people who are going to quit are going to quit and will find a reason regardless of either.

What's been done to the thief class here is not classic or proper UO, staff attitude towards stealing is concerning to say the least. Of course I want to keep players other wise there would be no one to steal from, but at the same time I play more against mechanics than players. You can follow up with the "don't steal in town" nonsense, but traditionally pks had dungeons, thieves towns, and both the wilderness.

Anyhow, if you want to nurture a player base, restraint on both parts should be used, but not in game nerfs and bad mechanics.

I think your opinions are far to biase to have any real conversation on what is and isn't good for the server. this server is as great as it is because telamon has done a great job of making it open to all play styles and you are missing the fact that this is not the old days. You have to keep in mind that we have to continue to attract more players and yes some player prefer a more tram style where they can hang out in town without being picked cleaned.( occlo is a great example of this ) a true fel server would not have the steady influx of new players we see here. And without them, theives wouldnt have many people to steal from in the first place. so your kinda shitting where you eat eh? Yes some of this can be said about pking also but as I mentioned I feel it's much more detrimental to make harassing people in town too ez. So how about a proposal to make stealing easier outside of guard zones?

How about a solution for pks be you can't rez while red?


See what I wrote above your post, I was writing it while you replied. that's pretty much my summation on everything.

if the code here is production then

=(500+2*(1000-difficulty))/10
plus "monetary item" (gold, jewelry, gem) of 800


So if you did a target steal with no witnesses then
=(500+2*(1000-805))/10

89% chance to succeed


I did control tests when I first started. My character's success rate was slightly lower than the math. By slightly I mean 5-8%.
HOWEVER, I've a feeling the NPC sight distance is farther than production's. It's when I added 5+ witnesses > 10 tiles things got weird.

If it's items you're after, group up and kill people for them. The support systems in place for that behavior outweigh rogue's.

This again I feel is an over reaction from your bias. I have suggested in the past and still feel stat loss on death vs res would be a minor step in curbing some of the problems from pks, but to not be able to res while red is deff way over board and destroys the balance that is needed.

I don't think the code accurately reflects stealing on prodo. It feels like it was geared towards power scroll use and not adjusted properly with their removal.


That guy, stop with the bias bullshit, my bias is I would like stealing to be equally effective weight and fail wise as it was on prodo, while accepting the trade window fix, the heavier rares, 0 weight runebooks, non stealable bod books, and etc.

Phrasing it as you did implies I'm incorrect when I'm not. I'm going to start thinking you're a dirty sjw if you don't cut it out.

And I'll have one good question for any of you arguing against me, did you play a thief on prodo from 97/98 to pub 16 (2002)? If not, then how do you think you have any right to tell me I'm wrong lol. If you didn't play, you don't know.



@wylwrk


http://uothief.com/faq/8pt1.html


This is what I would assume to be much newer mechanics, how does that match up to your formula?


I do know that prodo UO was thief friendly and it wasn't til 2002 that the class started being converted to pve.



I doubt we could contact anyone who actually coded that stuff to find out could we?

Identical sans the "monetary item" difficulty. Looks like he/she knew about it but didn't know the value for sure.

These are post powerscroll days values indeed. That explains my aforementioned "lower success rate" experience during testing.
I haven't bothered putting a solid adjustment into the math though. I'd safely guess my example above be about 83% instead.



Anyway, about your OP... serious or not. I suppose all we can do is what we're capable of individually. I think I'm going to hop the fence for awhile and have some fun with the bank thief fodder through the holidays.

*A novice detective studies forensics in Empath Abbey*

I'm going to write a song called "its not 1998"

lol I'm jk, I personally would like to abolish all guard zones and blessed items.and I have never played a thief so idk. I was just trying to shine a light on why theifs get the wrap of running people off the game NOWADAYS and why u should keep that in mind instead of dismissing it because you are in fact a bit biased to the situation

.

The idea was to recreate the feel of the era and patch out the bugs and add content. I don't act like I'm jesus come to earth, I act like I know what the feel of stealing is supposed to be like and have been met with nastiness and ignorance (like you) for 4 years about it.

By your logic, no one cares about you or anything you have to say about it any longer. There are no good servers for thieves, they are either pay to play or they are pk servers.


So take your attitude and stick it in your pee hole. Don't even know who you are except that you're some over opinionated new player who knows nothing about stealing or era Uo. (the wanting penalties on snooping was all the proof I needed) run along.

In my opinion, players get upset when they are stolen from because it is 99%, no 100% their own fault.
There are many anti-thief simple measures players can use to greatly reduce the chance of being stolen from.
Not to mention, the thieving template itself makes a thief very easy to kill.
My thief template is not fully developed, I'm not even sure what the template will be as I am learning thieving here as I go.
Being a thief is very challenging, and very rewarding.. I enjoy a good challenge and prefer to steal out of towns than in towns but will resort to stealing in town when the reds are so active that no one is out hunting.

This thread is long enough for a thief v pk debate, but I do wonder, why do pk's not consider themselves thieves?
Ambushing a player hunting with multiple reds when they are busy with fighting is actually a better, and less challenging way, of stealing from the player.
I would assume the pk's here will agree looting a player's corpse with 7xGM, or if 2 ambush then 14xGM, or 3 ambush with 21xGM (etc..) vs 1 player is a much more efficient way of STEALING FROM OTHER PLAYERS than stealthing through dungeons with a 4xGM thief template (solo) stealing one piece at a time from a player - with a ten sec delay.

What's the delay per item for looting the dead corpse? Ohh.. you just STEAL it all, in seconds.

Not to mention I see reds regularly bragging about how much plat, hc's, etc.. THEY STEAL FROM DEAD CORPSES all the time.

I'm not anti-pk, that's part of what makes the game fun, but thieving is the same, just more challenging and less effective way to STEAL FROM OTHER PLAYERS.

Annnd to break this down into simple terms for simple people, I don't want this stuff fixed to be over powered, I want it fixed to make it correct and to make it more fun (for everyone) all of you have 15 chars and you can make a thief and enjoy it as well. It quite simply is just not as fun as it used to be. A lot of this is mechanics issues and getting auto beat by the system and not by players. Yes there is some selfishness involved, because I play a thief as a main, but ideally it's to benefit everyone and to make the server even more well rounded as it is. I think Chris has done a fantastic job, I don't know how he invests the time and effort he does, and for that I'm eternally grateful. I also don't know how he puts up with a bunch of degenerates such as us, but I'm glad he does. There's nothing wrong with taking my opinions as a primary source on what stealing was like without getting a chip on your shoulder.