The magic of the mask is stronger than the power of provocation (although reason has little to do with it )
I totally buy that. I don't really foresee anyone complaining about overpowered orc masks in the future. . .
If it were allowed, you could effectively destroy anyone's orcish kin mask by provoking orcs onto them. Figured that was pretty self-explanatory. Some people are crazy enough to bless them AND dye them and I don't think it would be cool, however Feluccan, to allow a player to destroy that with the most simple of skills.
Wise's reason was infinitely better than yours. Orcish Kin masks are not very valuable and it's silly to bless and/or dye them. Lets not childproof stupidity too much.
To whom? It could be said that its silly to bless and dye any mask but to say that about the only mask that actually has a FUNCTION in the game, is stupid, if you want to start calling things stupid. If one were to RP an orc, they could hang out in the orc fort indefinitely for their RP without losing the mask to some jerk. Odd as it may seem, RP orcs and jerks both exist in UO so let's do the minority (RP orcs) a favor and prevent them from being forcibly destroyed by jerks. If they want to dye them to suit their garb, more power to them. So all told, blessed and dyed, the mask is now potentially worth 250k gold or more, depending on the dye. Making it as simple as a provocation of a low level mob to destroy it is completely stupid. Let's not add stupidity too much.
To bless and dye something that has such a touchy a self destruct code built in is stupid no matter how you want slice it. Sorry.
Hence the point of the OSI patch in era, genius. It has great RP function and to deny that by allowing any 50/50 scrub to destroy it with ease, is stupid. That's how it is sliced and for the record I'm pretty sure ShadowJack already blessed one like a year ago.
The unnecessary & off topic posts in this thread have been moved to their appropriate forum; trash talk. Let's try to keep this thread civil & on topic, throwing around insults & personal attacks do not belong here.
I didn't mean what you said, I meant the "basis of support" you choose to give to your arguments. For one history be damned, while for the other history matters. How convenient. Both right AND wrong. You could provoke onto ANY players until June 14th 2001, when you most eloquently pointed out that it was patched out. So historically, there was also a time, also during UOR, when you could provo orcs onto people wearing those masks. So, "historically" you could provo orcs onto people wearing those masks...just at another period in time. As they say, opinions are like assholes. In my opinion, perfecting it would allow for a player to be able to provoke orcs onto someone wearing a mask of orkish kin, since you can provoke orcs onto other orcs. Anything else makes no sense to me. Why would it have to remove the mask? How can music remove your "desguise"? Makes no sense to me. Hey, I go farm wearing my Polar Bear mask...that shit can break and it costs waaay more than the 250k that a mask of orkish kin costs. You're in fellucca, life is rough. Or what am I missing here? I don't need to stick up for Huz, nor was it my intention. It was only merely pointing out that in a growing number of topics, any opinion different than yours are more frequently being called shit by you. And to be perfectly blunt, I think that lately carrying a civil discussion has not been your strong point. I feel EXACTLY the same way about this issue. Except this was also accurate historically at one point in time. I'm glad I'm able to share this right with you.
Which was corrected as it was identified as a PROBLEM. You're missing the effort and skill required to drop your mask from its highly likely point of 255hp, to 0. The effort and skill required to provoke an orc onto a player is likely possible with 50/50 Provo/Music, if not less. This takes a SINGLE action to destroy the mask, hence the patch. I'm sure you'd sing a different tune if that were the case on your pretty bear mask. I do try to avoid calling differing opinions shit, until I'm provoked by ignorance or insult. The only reason there is a growing number of topics where my opinion differs is because there are a growing number of topics. I may not always be kind in my responses, but if its rubbing you the wrong way, by all means, make use of that Report button. To be perfectly blunt, carrying a civil discussion has always been entirely dependent upon the many variables in any given conversation.
Know what else was identified as a problem? PK'ng and stealing, hence Trammel. Just because OSI made a change doesn't mean it was the best change. It's cool that you think they made the right move in this specific situation but try to be ok with other people disagreeing with you. It'll be ok, I promise. For starters it's not the case. Masks of Orcish Kin provide a magical benefit in that orcs will not attack you while wearing it. Incurring certain risks while using such an ability that costs you nothing more than a half hour or so of farming is not unreasonable. Second, if Polar Bear masks (which do not have any unique abilities) were to self destruct so easily I doubt Pirul would dye and bless one to begin with. This is an apples to oranges comparison. Lastly, you were never insulted nor provoked by me. You were simply upset that another person valued a different opinion over yours. Try to be civil and understand not everyone will nor must agree with you and lets try to avoid going off topic and slinging crude comments at one another.
"Wise's reason was infinitely better than yours. Orcish Kin masks are not very valuable and it's silly to bless and/or dye them. Lets not childproof stupidity too much." This, for the second time, was where you began with insults. I understand the differences in the masks, but really, if someone wanted to bless one and dye one, that is no different than his mask being desirable because of the hue. He could also just spend 30 minutes getting a bear mask, but it's just not the same. While it may not provide a nifty magical benefit, it's certainly valuable enough to not want it to be destroyed on the whims of any 50/50 newb. As to the magical effect, seriously, what great benefit is it? Absolutely nothing but RP value of being able to play along with NPC orcs. Just because you think it is silly or stupid, does not make it invalid as an opinion or desire by anyone else. Other people can desire things that you don't understand or care about. It'll be ok, I promise.
I really don't want to inflame the situation (especially since I can never tell when Blaise actually cares and when he's just trolling) but I have considered dying and blessing a mask of orcish kin, myself. I'm not sure I care to wager an opinion on the provo mechanic but I'd sure be sad when some griefer bard broke it. . .
http://uorforum.com/threads/moved-provo-onto-players.4105/ It's feasible that someone could use it to gain an advantage PK'ing or PvPing in or near an orc fort or other spawn that includes orcs. While obviously not a game breaker, it does have uses. But this is a small matter and not really the topic of the thread nor the arguments that took place earlier. I never said anyone's opinion of the mechanic working or not in this thread was invalid. It's ok for me to disagree and think doing something is silly or stupid but I wouldn't use my own opinion as a basis to enable or disable a mechanic. That's why I asked for reasons orcs shouldn't be provoked onto players wearing an orcish kin mask to begin with. I wanted reasons for it not just copy/pasted patch notes, which is all you originally provided. Also note that after Wise gave his reason for not provoking orcs onto players wearing an orcish kin masks I was ok with it because I thought his reasoning was better than just because someone might want to bless and dye a mask that could easily be destroyed. Sorry Godric, I still think it's silly. Or at least if the action of blessing and dying one isn't silly then it's silly to be upset if it's broken. I think if you're going to drop money on an item like that you should be willing to roll the dice on whether something tragic like that could happen some day. Blaise, I agree that it would be kind of aggravating to have a 50/50 newbie griefing people who are wearing the masks and, mask issue aside, I don't really believe that 50/50 should even be able to provoke mobs onto players to begin with. Maybe provoking mobs onto players should be something that's earned from skilling up to prevent random griefing to some extent. Maybe you shouldn't be able to provoke onto players until Provoke skill is 80 or 90, something like that? This then makes it more akin to going hunting with your favorite perfect vanq slayer weapon and risking getting PK'd or robbed while casting a recall than it does risking some random freshly rolled character rolling up and griefing you. Lets just squash the BS in this thread and try to get some actual ideas rolling again.
Provoking only appears to check the first target. You're not provoking things onto each other, you're provoking your first target to attack your second. So with that in mind, it makes sense to me that a 50/50 player can provoke a mongbat to attack a player. It's not like a 50/50 player can provoke a balron onto someone... The system works as intended as-is, in my opinion, and is flexible enough to handle the ability to provoke onto players. The one thing I'd add is that monsters should aggro you upon a failed provoke attempt. May balance the ability to provoke onto players and is something I thought should be happening already anyways.
