Special Attack for Archery (with a poll)

I never played AoS. I could be confusing "critical hit" with another game.

Or if you are GM you never hit for single digit damage, or single digit damage only occurs at the furthest range.

Here is a completely random idea, can we introduce more types of ammo?

Armor piercing arrow - ignores AR

Spiked Arrow - causes bleed damage

Poisoned arrow - causes poison

Tater arrow - shoots a potato that turns into poop upon impact causing stunt, curse, poison and reduced all stats by 50.

Instead of ammunition you could have skills apply a % chance through toggle.
ARMSLORE = armor pierce chance.
POISONING = poison arrow
WRESTLING = use potion without disarm
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DOES LIKE

Archery + magery = imbued arrows? Lightning, Fire etc....

I like these last few ideas. I've always been a fan of the "skill complexes" in UO and think that could be the answer to a lot of our balancing issues. "You can make this skill more viable but only if you have this other one, too." It's a trade off but also promotes more varied character templates which makes the game more interesting for everyone. Besides people have been asking for poisoned arrows for as long as I've been playing this game.

Maybe inscription, apply scroll to bow.

For poisoning it would need to be applied to the bow, maybe less charges than melee weapons, 4 shots?

if you did magery/inscription for archery you would have to do it for all weps. but still a nice idea

Want my opinion? Has anybody really pvp'd with an archer? Yeah, its tuff. However a really skilled person or 2 players + using archers can be very brutal in the pvp field. This requires testing and not just opinions. Which is what your all providing.

I have to agree with Hatecrime, from my experience in UO throughout 1999-2002~, archery was always used as a supplemental skill or a group skill and it was devastating if used in the right way (And I'm not talking about archer turrets), from what I've seen/experienced here, it works in a similar fashion. Archery doesn't have its roots nestled in 1v1 combat because it is so much more powerful in other areas, basic logic tells us that if something is powerful in one area then it should have drawbacks in other areas.The cupid/santa event has shown us that archers can excel in some areas more than any other class, it seems only natural that it would mean they lack in other areas.

I don't think archery needs any significant buff (such as a special attack) with maybe the exception of an increase in hit rate over large distances, rather I think the problem is archers going 1v1 against tank mages/fenc dexxers and expecting to win every time because their weapon has range.

While it seems as though the majority of the community is leaning towards archery having a special attack, it's worth noting that if you always go with the majority the lesser fraction will become marginalized and more likely to break off leaving an ever dwindling portion of the original playerbase.
Also, I think that creating polls is somewhat absurd when it comes to significant changes such as altering an entire PvP skill, there exists a fragile balance between the four major combat skills and buffing/nerfing one should not be done by popular opinion. Players should be able to voice their opinion freely, but the notion of trying to sway the argument in their favor by getting the majority to agree with them is a terrible way to do it. Good arguments, good data and proof should be what change fundamental mechanics of a shard, definitely not popular opinion.

I also see a lot of people mentioning archery's AoS ability, while it may seem like an intriguing idea - for those of us who played AoS the entire PvP aspect of the game was completely deplorable - we should absolutely not be looking towards AoS for any PvP ideas whatsoever.

The banner on the shard says "History Perfected" not "History as the Majority Wants It". Ultimately all game changing judgements are deferred to the staff, and by their prior actions I'm sure that they'll make the right choice whatever it is.

Okay, so archery is better when you have 3 archers hitting the same target? Melee does better when you hit the same target, Mages do better when they hit the same target!

One thing that archery is hugely at a disadvantage is chugging pots, you can't do it and compete 1v1, it sets you back like 5 seconds.

Archery is the bottom of the barrel all around, except for the occasional boss mob.

Which is precisely the problem we're discussing. You may not see it as a problem but me and everyone who would like to play an Archer without feeling gimped certainly does.

Yes, much of this is opinion based but until we actually get something into testing, we will never know. If it were so viable, HateCrime would actually use his archer mage outside of group combat. The simple fact that no dedicated archer can hold a candle in a 1v1 indicates a pretty clear imbalance. No, no one here knows what will be balanced but I'm fairly certain EVERYONE here knows Archery, an actual combat skill, is not on par with others. Even the ACTUAL supplemental skill of Magery is more powerful by itself with any of the variations one can apply.

I don't see any reason why this discussion shouldn't happen or why we shouldn't at least have an option of testing it. I do like a lot of the concepts in this thread but we'll never know how good or bad they are without testing. I remember several people hopping on the archer mage bandwagon with the last change to archery. Tell me....where are they now? They are sitting at home collecting dust and feeling as useless, outside of a group, as they always have.

I almost edited my post to include melee... but everything would have to be delayed before new charges can be applied like 6 seconds and cost mana upon imbuement. Wishful thinking! :lol:

Just because something was always used for one purpose does not mean that it can't be used for different purposes, such as 1v1 combat with archery.

Yes the need for balance is a logical one, no one disputed this. What we are trying to show is that archery is too imbalanced where the penalties are more worse than the benefits are good.

Now this is more like it, adding a good idea to the hat.

No, what we are trying to get is not guaranteed death or recall if faced with a tank/dex because lets face it, a pvp archer only would die 99% of the time under the current rules and mechanics of combat.

You are shooting yourself in the foot with your own premise here. You are basically saying that changes (after being deemed positive to the improvement of the shard by the owner) should not be implemented because it might scare away a minority (or even majority) because they disagree.

A) The poll is meant to gage the opinion of the shard as a whole, not to use the results as an "I told you so" or "democracy wants this"
B) The amount of responses and involvement in this discussion clearly shows that there is no balance and some skills are clearly better for pvp (which includes 1v1)

Bingo bango, players should voice their opinion (what we are all doing here) no one is arguing anything (yet) we are sharing ideas about how to improve a skill which many find lacking. The aim of this shard as I see it is improving (perfecting) the game.

Glad to have you on board. Feel free to present valid and sound arguments, data collection and analysis and 'proof'. No one wants a tyranny of the majority here, me least of all.

Right again, which is why I created this thread so that we can all pitch in ideas, opinions, arguments and eventually verifiable data to support one argument or another.


I completely see where you're coming from with this fear of majority rule. I too am afraid because I would hate for 60-70% of people to say "we want neon ridable polar bears" and for staff to make it so. I think you are getting defensive because you think we are trying to strong-arm Chris into making changed. I assure you no one is doing anything remotely close.

I want a rideable polar bear, just not neon.

I would think the staff is smart enough to test these things before implementation, a lot of things have been added that I don't like but doesn't necessarily effect me and others like it and it adds more to an already expansive world. I don't want changes that upset pvp, that break one class because another was introduced. I won't leave the game if archery isn't buffed, although I do have 2 archers (pvm and pvp) and so I feel I can lobby for changes, I don't want to run around killing stuff instantly either. I think changes could be made to spice up archery while still keeping it reasonable and not broken in any way.

Since there is a PvP concern, perhaps only PvM

Having seen poisoned arrows on a server in the past, I'm 100% against it (as well as any other DoT: bleed, burn, etc) vs players.

I have always seen Archery in its more traditional role as a "secondary" combat skill, an RP combat skill, or a skill that's great in groups (holding a position especially).

I agree that Archery could use some sort of love... just not sure what. Out of everything I've read in this thread, I think the "Armor Ignore" on the same chance as para/crush/conc makes the most sense for both PvM and PvP. Any sort of ranged para shot, dismount shot, or DoT is just unbalanced, in my opinion.

How was poison arrows so powerful? Was arrows poisoned or bow?

With casting or melee you can re-poison your opponent quicker.

Poisoned arrows on Angel Island

It was toned down to the above. Originally, if I can recall correctly, there was no poison skill requirement attached to it. Anyone could pick up a bow, arrows, and DP poisoned rag and fire DP arrows. I believe the chance to poison was calculated at (Poisoner skill/4) for both poison rags and poisoned weapons. Poison rags followed the same charge method as bladed weapons: 12 DP/14 GP/16 Normal/18 Lesser. The requirement for them to be in the "top level" of your pack effectively allowed "toggling" of firing potentially poisonous arrows. Arrows did normal damage ranges even when poison was applied. Probably worth noting that Angel Island was a "no mounts" server. I believe it also required a "sealed bow" (Bowcraft skill, same mat req as bow + beeswax), unsure if this was original implementation or if it went in somewhere down the line... been a few years.

Magery does not do additional damage as it poisons, even though it is from range.

Melee does additional damage as it poisons, but requires opponent to be adjacent to target.

Poisoned Arrows/Archery Shots potentially do all of the above: Damage, DoT, and Range.

The *only* way I could see these even being remotely viable is if poison shots do 0 damage and only inflict poison. With that being said, people who see "ZOMG ARCHERY CAN POISON" will most likely fall into 2 camps: Those who love the idea of it, and those who will write the server off as far too custom to be taken seriously.