Tamer Stat Loss

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Now I know it may be frustrating to have an encounter where your pets are all killed by a group of PK's. I don't think this is truly the case all the time but that is something that is left to the murderers to decide on what they will do.

2.5% is a reasonable amount of stat loss and I'd much prefer that than a 24 hour window or whatever. If your pets are fully trained when they die with a 2.5% loss they can be immediately rezzed and reused for farming and still be quite powerful. Conversely; It doesnt take very long at all to spar the pet back to 5X GM. This would only take an hour or two.....

There certainly needs to be some risk involved with pets and 2.5% is a decent balance IMO.

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And their hair automatically gets chopped into a pageboy.

Well that's an educated response, however it is completely false. A Fischer vs Kasparov bout was more likely to be a PVP battle, a duel, a faction war, a cee-tee-ef, name your game. PKing is not pee-vee-pee-ing, and that's not my quote. It's more like a man-vs-goose battle, and I don't see anything heroic in that.

That's the direction I was talking about, and thats exactly what UO is NOT. In UO you dont get to be a hero, a superman. It's not some ying-yang, good vs evil, manihaic approach. Funny that you even mention that.

Insofar the Pork's comments on inflation, all due respect, but unfortunately you are doing nothing to help inflation. On the contrary, it is the other way round.
Basic economics say that inflation is not about the amount of circulating currency. Example: if all gold were magically doubled, the absolute inflation would be 200%, but as far as actual gameplay was concerned, nothing would change.
Or the other way around, if all gold was divided by 10, drastically dropping the amount of gold, would that solve inequality? Hell no!

States inflate their currencies so that they hold more of it -proportionally-. Inflation means less people hold more money, and getting in the niche and the commodities that go with it becomes extremely difficult. So, actually killing players -even more so younger players that try to make it into the niche- WORSENS inflation by driving up prices!

It is okay to have that in a game, that's part of the mechanics. But please, I haven't been here much, but if you can listen my reasoning on this, tamers are not the problem in inflation. Your only hope in dropping prices is increasing the amount of people that hold gold, even if it seems counterintuitive. Economics are often counterintuitive so please give it a thought.

TL;DR
Plankton made an upside-down comment. peekays drive up inflation and inequality (among other things, granted).

This server bribes players to stay logged in. I also don't think there's any way for us to see how many actually IPs are logged in or how many of those are forever-Young players.

It's about time they disabled this. It's bad enough that pets are bonded let alone immune to attacks. I'm sorry that you can no longer farm absurd amounts of gold without risking losing anything at all. Tamers are still super dangerous to attack and are still a deterent when PKs are out and abouf. I don't see how anyone can complain about the stat loss without knowing for sure that they are asking for a game that they can't lose in.

"Your days of running around town like a cowboy are over!"
-Jimmy Justice

Thank you Curly Sue, your reply had enough "absurd amounts of gold", "tamers are super dangerous", "god mode", although it could use a bit more of "nerf tamers" and "this is felluca after all".


All I am saying is that actually making hard for tamers (and more specifically less skilled ones who do not have hoards of gold already) is what is driving up prices. Making it hard for people to amass gold is driving up prices. Does that seem difficult to grasp? I understand that, even professors of economics mess up all the time. Could I be wrong? Yes, of course, but everyone seem to be discussing inflation in orcish: "Many moneys in UO, taymers make moneys, nerf taymers". That's not how it works.

Plus, pvp balance and economy problems are two different things. We should discuss them seperately. They are not connected.

I am arguing that if you think making it easier to peekay a poor-ish tamer will help you get your mask dye, you got it completely in reverse.

If all you want is to kill people and their pets, have at it. Just don't fool yourself that you are any kind of hero to the economy or your fellow players. You are free to play anything and fill any role you want. Still, if you choose to be a bad guy, stomach it and act like one, and expect to be resented and detested. Don't act like you didn't choose to ruin other people's game.

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Uh... Huh? Did you miss the part where Chris and staff just added pet skill-loss back in?

Seriously, how does your post make any sense in this thread?

I don't think anyone is arguing for this, but instead, making their be actual "risk" involved with poor pet ownership (people who can't be keep their pets alive). A dragon+mare combo who are "Adept" or low "Master" in their skills can farm very very well. You don't have to train pets to 7x, in fact, you're better off farming with pets who are not 7x and getting those last 10-15pts of skills organically. It's more profitable and it's a better use of a person's time.

Tamers need balance, if this wasn't the case, you wouldn't see so many threads and comments from so many people. Tamers are very easy to make here, so the argument that taming is somehow slow or difficult to raise is out the window. It's even faster if you know a tamer or are rolling a 2nd or 3rd tamer, as many people do. If taming was actually difficult to GM, I don't think we'd have so many people up in arms.

McAferty, I think your view on this topic is too simple. I am no native english speaker, so forgive me some crude sentences.

The really rich people haven't hoarded gold. Some have high amounts of plats, but not many. Most rich vets have their wealth invested in sexy pixels, real estate, trammel gear, etc. This stuff isn't usually offered in trade forums and is thus out of the economy.

Any tamer out there can amass in very short time some millions - with nearly non-existent risk to loose valuable stuff. These meager amount is probably equal to what the vets have in their bank accounts themselves (except some vets who collected alot gold recently). The liquidity is not that uneven between rich vets and new tamers. When you additionally consider wealth generating programs like the anniversary lotto or most of the other events, then you see, that much wealth is given out proportionally to the playtime. And as far as I can tell, many vets dont play that much as new players.

The real problem we are talking about here is the comparison between tamers and other templates. Risk vs gain. And that is highly unfair right now and was far worse without statloss at all. PKing can only slightly slow down the gold generation, I can't belive that it has a significant impact.

And I don't want to see new players leave, too. It's great that the shard is growing, but that shouldn't come at the cost of the Feluccan spirit of gameplay - namely, that you are in risk out there to lose some kind of values. That you dont simply resurrect without any consequences and keep on the same way you did before. I belive that longterm easy-mode gaming without real competition isn't as addictive as the Feluccan PvP/PvM mixture.

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The question is did you miss the thread full of people crying about it?

All I said was it was a good indication of the shard's direction. (Populated by trammies)

Hehe, I think the full spectrum of players was here the entire time.

You have "right-wing extremists" that want bonding completely gone.
You have "left-wing extremists" that want no-skill-loss bonding like it was with the DDOS protection era.
And then you have everyone else in the middle that want varying degrees of skill loss or other compromises.

The reason the left-wing guys didn't speak up in the previous thread is because they were living the high life. No one complains when they have their way.

I did. I see 2-3 players that want it to go back to no skill-loss.

What I don't follow is how you got from there to the accusation that Chris is selling out, purposely adding Trammel just to get more players here, that the admin's behavior is "barf-worthy", and incited all the typical follow-up Trammel Fear Mongering (TFM) that routinely goes on around here.

Occlo, infinite bonding slots, AMiBs, the majority of 'holiday' events now, L7 Maps, gargoyle shovels (ie: targetted and specific mining intended for fighters, not miners).

These, in my opinion are all "influences of Trammel" which is specifically the sense he is making.

The list really can go on (recall restrictions, damage nerfs in housing, event center trading/idling) but I don't understand why it needs to be explained any further than this: The influences of Trammel have been specifically added and targeted to retain 'new' players. The veterans who came here in support of the dream, who were told there would be no more than one bonding slot, and various other things that haven't come to pass, are displeased. You may think it's a small percentage but look at activity versus client count and imagine that I'm just one of the more vocally opposed veterans and maybe it'll be a more clear picture.

The people you see crying in this thread (who as far as I know are members of the most active guild on the server) were already catered to... and now that it's being taken away they're basically threatening to quit.

Do you need examples of Chris implementing things because he wanted to avoid the hassle of hearing people cry? Because I can go on for days.

In the end all I meant to say was that it is a good indicator of the shard's direction... and the shard is made up of a bunch of players; not just 1 admin.

Sorry that stating my honest opinion about a game I'm super passionate about is seen as fear mongering. Chris should know better than to take it as a personal attack.

I think Basoosh is very right here.

And now that the topic is back on the table, why not talk about the "varying degrees of skill loss or other compromises": There was already the idea about pet skill loss which, after a certain time in-game, passes. A little how it works with PKs. Details can be worked out later.

I'd like to hear more opinions on this, as this idea has had at least some support from both sides.

I think we should all respect the veteran gamers like Blaise. He is important.

His thoughts and 50000 posts are key to the vitality of this server.