The GreenBowl BagBall Tourney Saturday Nov 8th - Starting 7PM 1 MIL - PRIZE POOL

I was keeping my mouth shut because I got what was owed to myself and my teammate but these blatant accusations will not go unrivaled any longer.

Gideon, you're an idiot, a sore loser, and for all the fame you have on this server you didn't pay up what you said you would and subsequently screwed a lot of people who deserved to have a share of the reward pool. Your actions CUT IT IN HALF.

Myself and Abraham Lincoln did not use a macro or any form of razor to pick up the ball. We communicated in vent when we had the ball in our possession, when we lost it, and when we picked it up again so the other person could get in position to pickup the drop (WHICH WE KNEW EXACTLY WHERE IT WOULD BE. DUE TO PRACTICE) and we practiced for 3 hours earlier in the day mastering ball placement and character positioning. During OUR matches, the only way that ball was picked up and placed was through the use of manual clicking. I don't know if OTHER teams cheated but Lumberjackin' It won it fair and square and thankfully, for us, ONLY US, Halabinder paid us the reward out of his own bank account. YOU left everyone else without a piece of the reward money because you cried like a baby and gave up halfway through the game because you couldn't compete. Thankfully Krake acted like an adult and handled the situation maturely.

I don't dislike you, I just dislike what you did and how you acted. I hope you learn to backup what you say because with God as my witness, Lumberjackin' It won outright.

If you want a rematch, we will HAPPILY give you one without even logging into razor. I just think it's screwed up you went back on your word and no one says crap about it like you're god's gift to UO:R.

Lumberjackin' It does not condone cheating and does not condone false accusations pointed at us.

Man up and pay up what you owe.

I want to reiterate one part of my previous post so you see it and hopefully accept it.

If you want a rematch, we will HAPPILY give you one without even logging into razor.

Any time.
Any place.

Here is what I will say about my experience with Taliic's team reffing them. I was annoyed by them because they held the ball for almost too long every possession, but not quite long enough for it to be a foul. They seemed consistent with this. But they were also on vent. I was satisfied with their explanation. So I gave them the reward and for the record it was NOT all out of my own pocket. Most people paid their donations. ALSO to everyone's credit, no one cared about any rewards and thus no one has given me any grief. Or even a mention... The people of this server don't come to support these things for a reward other than supporting the server.

I hadn't played UO in 7 years and when I did I was never that savvy. I don't care, I'll admit it. I will not call anyone a cheater if I personally cannot prove it or feel that it may have been the case. Lumberjackin' It won the tournament fairly as far as I am concerned. I will take nothing away from their victory.

I do however thank Gideon for his comments here regardless of whether or not I agree with some of the aspects of them.

Also, I too will thank Krake for handling the situation after the game with respect.

That's what I thought you meant. Is it what you said? Do you do this to me on purpose? I always read things you write like 8 times and I am still not sure what they mean. Starting with your response to my post about the Goelm going missing. If that goddamn Golem never went missing I honestly would never have made a forum account.

http://uorforum.com/threads/where-is-my-golem-buddy.6507/

I say we just turn Jupiter into a pillar of flames. That always makes me feel better about things.

Who-can-brave-the-flaming-wizard-BALL!

Ps: Fiancé agro reaching record highs... Must put down smartphone or end up in cat litter box. No doghouse to speak of.

I agree %100. Why would we cheat right in front of the server owner (who I have a ton of respect for).

Everyone had a lot of fun, myself included. This one sore loser isn't going to ruin that for me. He quit on his teammate in the last match and from what I understand, he didn't pay up on donations. Haters are always going to hate.

Thanks to everyone who put this together and STAFF FOR BEING SO AWESOME

Unfortunately I don't have a lot of proof to exonerate myself except for what I say and how I handle myself. I know our games looked 'suspicious' because we truly did surprise even ourselves at how efficient we played and how easy we made it look scoring up and down the field repeatedly. Vent was wildly loud and exciting, both of us screaming and cheering after every goal. We were on a high that whole night even after the games ended because we won legitimately and won decisively. Yes, the gold was our motivation to invest that much time and effort into performing as well as we did. We practiced in an open field for 3 hours earlier in the day picking up the ball, dropping it in a predetermined position without holding it too long, and moving immediately after we dropped it to get ready to re-pick and repeat. All the while doing this until the point of mastering it. Our strategy was flawless and we weren't the only team doing that strategy - we just executed it to perfection when it mattered most.

After the questionable final game I was disheartened to hear cheating accusations pointed towards us by GIdeon of all people. I respected him up until this point for all the work he's done for this server. He genuinely cares about this server and I know he genuinely thought we were cheating. But honestly, you know it and I know it that it was more because you were put in a position of immense frustration right off the bat during our final match because we scored quickly and kept the peddle to the metal. Your defense mechanisms shined, deflecting the loss in any way possible and you gave up - blaming the loss on cheating.

Here is my conversation with Chris immediately after the game showing ONLY my messages, not his. I respect Chris enough to not put our private conversation on a public forum. I will, however, show you some proof that I tried to clear Lumberjackin' It's name. Would I have done this had I cheated?

[21:54:06] <Taliic> Chris
[21:54:19] <Taliic> is there any way you can search my razer macro's and disprove the fact that we were cheating?
[21:54:25] <Taliic> I know i didn't use anything to pick the bag up
[21:54:28] <Taliic> and I know Abe didnt
[21:54:42] <Taliic> If there is any way to disprove the allegations against us it would be awesome
[21:54:45] <Taliic> I have nothing to hide
[21:55:14] <Taliic> Maybe see a list of all my accounts macro's ever made? i don't know the powers you have or what you're able to do, but if there is ANY way to check, please do
[21:55:49] <Taliic> Yea
[21:55:58] <Taliic> we practiced it
[21:55:59] <Taliic> that's all
[21:56:06] <Taliic> we had teamwork and it paid off

Would I have done that if I was using a macro? Would I try to bring unnecessary attention to myself if I were guilty? If WE were guilty? I know my teammate well and we both played fairly. I wish I recorded our games but like I said, I didn't know we were going to perform as well as we did and have an end result that would warrant video footage to clear our name.

To everyone that believes us and knows we played legit, thank you. We greatly appreciate it and we look forward to defending our title at the next Bagball Tournament!

Look, I was frustrated we didn't do better, that's only natural, due to our competitive nature. Our team didn't have the opportunity to practice beforehand. Had we been able to connect to practice together an hour or so a night before the event, I can assure you that we would have done better...as a team. If we would have had Vent...even better! I am not making excuses for not winning, I am pointing out that teamwork, coordination, and practice makes a world of difference. I had fun, put a lot of work in to make it happen, and I can't wait 'till the next tournament. I think we have a lot of possibilities with this. Who knows...someone may even put together a free agency, and start trading players, team budgets, salary caps, oh my!

I am going to consult with my Staff, to discuss the possibility of forming the Renaissance Bagball Commission and will update.

I 100% agree with you, Freak. Practice makes perfect and we are a testament to that.

As far as the free agency and trading players goes, I have put a franchise tag on Abraham Lincoln so don't even think about it. We are currently undergoing contract negotiations to hopefully keep him Lumberjackin' It for years to come.

I'm beginning to rethink the idea of having monetary awards for events. This is very sad.

The fact that he didn't pay up? or the fact it's used as motivation to win?

We've never had bad blood or this happen at a player event before. It's making people take it to seriously.

I wish there was no bad blood. I wish it more than anyone, believe me. I love harmony in real life and in game. I just can't stand idly by in the midst of those rubbish accusations. I will not have my name dragged through the figurative mud when I don't even know how to make razor display my refresh pots, let alone make a macro to pick up a stupid bag. That last post Gideon made just pushed me off the edge.

On the subject of Gold. Vlar I kind of agree. But I also kind of disagree. I don't think the reason for Gideon's actions are gold. The fact that he doesn't pay it makes no difference in the great scheme of things. It just offends Taliic because it takes away from the legitimacy of his victory. There is a reason that Gideon is respected. He generally has a cool head about him and his words are always aimed at bringing people together or easing off tensions. He cooled lightshade off in the Halloween thread when he want on a bit of rant (which he later erased) on complainers from what I remember.

To be called a cheater by someone like that and face the silence of the community is awful. Gideon is basically using his fame and good deeds towards the community to call someone out on something where there is no basis other than his opinion.

Here is my analysis of what happened to Gideon. After winning 3 decisive games and feeling like champs with speed and brutal efficiency they lost to the slow and meticulous team that was painful to referee, let alone play against. He just couldn't handle it. They had been one of the speedier teams moving the ball up and down the field. I can see it would be frustrating not to be able to get through the other team's defense. I am pretty sure Gideon would have been pissed if we were playing for peanuts. Shit sorry what was it we called this crap around here? Pixels? Right that was it...

I wish there was no bad blood also, but this nonsense has left a bad taste in my mouth.

Couldn't have said it better. Thank you.

Hey team, hey guys, hey community.

I am only going to make one post in this thread.

First and foremost, this is a game. UO is a game. Its not life, its not important, its not our families, our jobs, our ethics or faith, or our validation as human beings.

The last game for us was frustrating. Undefeated into getting crushed, that was a hit to our personal high and our pride.

But after talking, privately, with both Taliic and Abraham individually, I do not believe they were cheating; I believe they took this game more seriously than Gideon and I did (We didnt even practice, we didnt ever get on vent, we just kinda showed up that day and somehow did really well those first 3 games).

I have no bad blood with Taliic or Abraham or my teammate Gideon. Because we, as humans, learn more from defeat than victory, I say we put this experience behind us and look forward to the events and quests and ctf games and crazy IRC interactions we will all be having soon.

Also keep in mind that real life can effect how we act online, right? Perhaps things out of our control seep into the fabric of our digital selves and unfortunately, it comes out at very inconvenient times.

I hope we can all show a measure of grace to one another, and to Gideon, regardless of if he changes his mind/gives prize money to this, or anything else. Gideon has been amazing for this shard. And that is a scientific fact! We are all allowed to have off days every now and then.

I had a great time, honestly. It was a great event @Halabinder and you did it amazingly well what with the last minute changes. I look forward to seeing what else you come up with.

Thanks everyone.

~Krake

I thank you for believing we did not cheat and giving us the credit we deserve. I agree with what you said as well, I've only been here a little more than a month and the work Gideon has done for this shard is very apparent to veterans and new players alike. I just... I just wish things went differently that night after the final game and I wish it never escalated to this point. I don't want to attack anyone but I was backed into a corner. Like I said in the first post, I don't dislike Gideon, I just dislike what he did and how he acted/is acting. I know he won't apologize because he has face to save but I just hope he acknowledges, to himself, that he was wrong. To be put in the position/situation we were put in really really really sucks when you're a person who cares about what people think. I wish I could just brush it off and say 'fk it' but I value my reputation in a world where reputation is everything.

I do have to admit once upon a time at a LAN party I got pretty mad thinking some kids were cheating in Counter-Strike after my team went undefeated then got rolled in the finals. So that can happen to the absolute best of us...