Weapon Damage, Weapon Weight, and Armor Value

Discussion in 'Era Discussion' started by wylwrk, Nov 7, 2016.

  1. wylwrk

    wylwrk Well-Known Member

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    I've been toying around with various sword-type weaponry, various target armor values, and I think I've noticed something.
    It also jarred a faint memory as I think I saw what I'm about to draw out before discussed on these forums before but, for the life of me I can't find it now. Regardless, I'd like to confirm it if I can.

    Does anyone have any observances that would confirm that a weapon's weight/type (2 hand, pole arm, axe) will surpass a lighter weapon's DPS on a high AR target regardless of the comparing weapon's base stats?

    For example I'm finding a halberd is doing considerably better than a katana on timed tests against a target in invuln plate however, reduce the AR to a specific point and the katana pulls ahead of the halberd.

    I'm conflicted however knowing that with each swing, I'm hitting a different "body part" on humanoid (player) targets. I'm curious about my question regarding players but am also equally curious about PvM mobs and specifically HIGH armored ones and heavier weapon type results.

    I'm also having interesting results with the thin long sword (1 stone weapon).


    Your thoughts, observances, experience?
  2. Dalavar

    Dalavar Well-Known Member
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    [​IMG]

    Weight has nothing to do with it, but the amount of damage does.

    Imagine a katana averages 10 damage per hit and a halberd averages 20. The katana hits twice as fast. So, against 0 armor, the average damage in any time period is the same.

    Now imagine the target's armor reduces the damage by 4 per hit. The katana averages 6 damage per hit and the halberd averages 16 damage. Factor in time and the kat is doing 12 damage for every 16 the halberd does.

    It tips even more when you factor in dice rolls too, such that swingy weapons that roll few dice (i.e. war fork, double axe) do more damage against armored foes than weapons that roll many dice.

    Example:
    Double axe rolls 5, 10, 15, 20, 25 damage. War axe rolls 15, 15, 15, 15, 15. Target's armor reduces damage by 10 each time. Result:
    Double axe does 0, 0, 5, 10, 15 damage. War axe does 5, 5, 5, 5, 5 damage. That's 30 damage for the double axe, 25 for the war axe. Same average base damage, same swing speed, etc.

    Body part is another variable but only in that humanoids can have different AR for each of the 6 body parts.

    What are you seeing with the thin longsword? They have the same base damage min and max in RunUO, though it's possible Chris messed up the dice roll implementation for one of them when he made that change years ago.

    For monster AR, I have no idea how it works, it's an insane system where the monster has I think multiple body parts, and it works out to on average:

    AR -- Avg.Absorb
    10 -- 1.7
    20 -- 3.4
    30 -- 5.1
    40 -- 6.9
    50 -- 8.6
    60 -- 10.2
    70 -- 12.0
    80 -- 13.7
    90 -- 15.4
    100 -- 17.1
    110 -- 18.8
    120 -- 20.5

    ...but since there are multiple body parts it's a little less consistent than this and is not the same number each time.
  3. wylwrk

    wylwrk Well-Known Member

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    Yes and those are precisely the results I had been getting. While messing about though I had recalled the aforementioned discussion about weapon weight and it's been bothering me. If it's a factor, I'd like to record it of course.

    I also like it remaining a "left to the players to discover" type of thing.... even though Chris drops knowledge bombs every now and then.

    Regarding the thin long sword, I had been 3 tests deep with it at the time I took a break to make this post and had not gone below a base damage (factoring in AR absorption) of 8, which I thought was unusual. It panned out after a few more runs. Lucky rolls, I suppose.

    One thing I had forgotten about though is variance and dice rolls when it comes to weapon selection.

    2d23+3 dice rolls with a base damage of 5-49 vs 3d8+2 dice rolls with a base damage of 5-26 seems like an interesting comparison but becomes even more diverse when tossing in weapon speed. This does indeed help one make an informed decision when knowing your targets AR value.

    What's really interesting and overall satisfying though is this.

    When given a choice and thinking of what weapon your character would choose when facing a dragon, a lich, an evil mage lord, or a player... they coincide with the math.

    For example, I personally wouldn't want to fight a dragon with a dagger. If I did though, that had better be one very special dagger.

    *happy face*
  4. CaptainMorgan

    CaptainMorgan Well-Known Member
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    Weight is not a factor for sure.
  5. Dalavar

    Dalavar Well-Known Member
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    Yeah, I'd have loved to go the next step and figure that stuff out (best weapon for each enemy monster), but even beyond what was already discussed, you have to factor in:

    - exceptional, ruin-vanq bonuses
    - tactics bonuses (which on this shard use an insane custom system)
    - slayer bonus

    ...and it becomes more annoying than anything to try to figure out how order of operations works and such.

    Back in the days of having the second valorite hammer on the shard, I made a valorite dagger for kicks. Looks like it's still the only one, but it is inactive in one of my character's bank boxes:
    http://www.uorenaissance.com/itemdetails/Dagger/F52/1
    wylwrk likes this.

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