What are the actual odds that dexxers will ever be useful in PvP?

Discussion in 'Era Discussion' started by TreeHugger, Dec 27, 2016.

  1. TreeHugger

    TreeHugger Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2016
    Messages:
    568
    Likes Received:
    244
    Are we hovering about 10%?

    Does everyone on here like only playing one template? Or have we just given up the idea of making things interesting?
    One and newme like this.
  2. Mes

    Mes Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2013
    Messages:
    2,350
    Likes Received:
    2,777
    people gravitate towards what works and dexers dont work
    One, newme and Jean-Pierre like this.
  3. TreeHugger

    TreeHugger Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2016
    Messages:
    568
    Likes Received:
    244
    Wouldn't it be weird if something could be done about that?! Hmmmmm!
    Gutscrank and newme like this.
  4. Jean-Pierre

    Jean-Pierre Active Member
    UO:R Subscriber

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2015
    Messages:
    188
    Likes Received:
    240
    Dexxers worked pretty damn well during this era way back. However things are different now. The lack of stuff like razor (UOAssist wasn't as powerful as razor), no stacking pots (wish pots didn't stack here), etc probably allowed dexxers to be decent in pvp during this era...anyway I sure as hell had a LOT of fun playing various dexxers back then. Also had a scribe/nox mage which was a lot of fun too both for factions and PK'n. Nox mages here though are just not the same due to how cures seem to work and the fact that pots stack so everyone carries a shitload of pots.

    You can still do fairly well though as a dexxer even here. Just need to choose your battles wisely and stick to your opponent like glue. It's definitely not a strong (or popular) pvp char type but can still be fun to play with the right template. There's a reason though most people seem to go with stun mages.
    Last edited: Dec 27, 2016
    eherruh and newme like this.
  5. Cynic

    Cynic Well-Known Member
    UO:R Subscriber

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2013
    Messages:
    2,975
    Likes Received:
    2,297
    While I'm a huge fan of dexxers in pvp, it's creating balance that's the problem. Currently you shouldn't have much trouble against a mage 1v1 in pvp, so long as you know what you're doing.

    I used to be a big proponent for dexxer pvp change but I'm starting to come around thinking it's not as bad as I once thought. I've seen some pretty good dexxers out there, Woody being one of them. He does very well in staying alive and his offense is annoying.

    The biggest issue is probably the cost of a loadout. A dexxer being considerably more expensive to die on compared to a mage. I try to stick to gold runics (definitely enough power) and it seems to keep me from losing my mind when I die.
    Keystone, eherruh, newme and 2 others like this.
  6. Jean-Pierre

    Jean-Pierre Active Member
    UO:R Subscriber

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2015
    Messages:
    188
    Likes Received:
    240
    Definitely true and carries over into PvM too (loss of slayer weapons). Dying as a mage is losing some pots, regs, misc crap, and some gm crafted armor. Dying as a well equip'd dexxer is losing mostly the same stuff (though likely not as many regs) but also a 10k+ weapon. That adds up after a while and gets annoying and is also harder to restock unless you have a blacksmith pumpin out runics.

    For example, if I die on my heal stun mage I may lose 100 of each reg, pots (including some explosion pots of course), some bandages, misc crap (pouches, a box, etc), and a GM crafted suit.

    If I die on my nox fencer I lose 2 gold weapons (20k there), a suit of armor (GM crafted probably), some regs (not as many as the mage though) and pots (including DP pots and explosion pots). Lets check the cost of that...

    Heal/Stun mage:
    100 of each reg? 2600 gold (with mage guild discount).
    100 bandages? 200 gold.
    Pots? Shit I don't know...say just for sake of argument 2000 gold worth of pots.
    GM Crafted suit - 2000 gold.
    Misc items (pouches for example) - not even worth mentioning....100gold tops.

    Total lost = 6900 gold.

    Nox Fencer:
    50 of each reg - 1300 gold (with mage guild discount).
    100 bandages - 200 gold
    Same amount of pots - 2000 gold, BUT with deadly poison pots in there too (5 of them at 200 gold a piece about) = 3000 gold in pots.
    Misc times - 100 gold.
    Gold Spear - 10000 gold (or maybe 9000, depends on the vendor)
    Gold War fork - 10000 gold (or maybe 9000, depends on the vendor)

    Total lost = 24700 gold.

    Even if you don't do a nox fencer, your loss value when you die (if you're looted) is still going to be double or more as a pure dexxer than it would be for a standard stun mage and you're going to have less finishing power & burst than a mage. There's a reason the large majority seem to flock to stun mages here. That said I still enjoy my dexxers so play one if you want! Just realize you're going to lose more when you die than the person you're fighting and you're at a disadvantage. That actually makes it all the more sweet when you drop someone who is well known as a dexxer :)

    FWIW out of all the dexxer type templates I've tried here, nox fencer seems to have the most potential. Scribe fencer is fun (especially if someone doesn't know you're a scribe and blows themselves up on you), axer is fun (big hits), but nox fencer seems like a good (yet expensive) char to go with if you're wanting to play a dexxer and can stick to your target like glue. Keep in mind though my opinions are based on being solo the large majority of times... so that's the angle I'm coming from.
    Last edited: Dec 27, 2016
    eherruh and newme like this.
  7. TreeHugger

    TreeHugger Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2016
    Messages:
    568
    Likes Received:
    244
    The key word here is that his offense is annoying... not deadly...

    I'd love to be able to whack a guy to death with any melee skill but that's just not the case, really.

    A guy that spends 50k+ on regs to gm magery and another however many thousands on resist ought to have less to lose than a guy who used 300GP on skinning knives to GM his char...

    I'd just like to see a bit more deviation in the attacking other than 5x or 7x mages is all
  8. Jean-Pierre

    Jean-Pierre Active Member
    UO:R Subscriber

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2015
    Messages:
    188
    Likes Received:
    240
    Same, but don't let that stop ya from playing a dexxer. They can still be fun and are a lot of fun in things like CTF for example. Ya ever want some practice on yours let me know. I'm always up for some duels in the pits on my tank mage, heal/stun mage, or various dexxers :) Lord knows I need some practice fighting so any duels are welcome.
  9. One

    One Well-Known Member
    UO:R Donor

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2015
    Messages:
    1,698
    Likes Received:
    1,294
    It's worth noting that even fencers here will often have GM magery and will certainly have GM resist. The result is that they're not cheaper or easier to train than mages. Even if it's an LJ, training LJ is annoying as hell.

    As best I can tell no major changes are planned for PvP whatsoever.

    For PvM we've been told there's going to be an improvement to parrying. Imho the best option for that are slayer shields which reduce both melee and spell damage from specific classes of monster. Putting these in with sufficient abundance would at least give dexxers the opportunity to PvM without tremendous risk for little reward.
  10. Mes

    Mes Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2013
    Messages:
    2,350
    Likes Received:
    2,777
    that's exactly right

    even in expensive gear a group of dexers won't beat a group of mages in field combat

    dexers do consistent, hard to coordinate damage over time

    mages do burst damage that is easy to coordinate

    There's not much that can be done to fix this.
    blasfede and One like this.
  11. wylwrk

    wylwrk Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2015
    Messages:
    2,690
    Likes Received:
    3,707
    who said things were supposed to be balanced?
  12. Cynic

    Cynic Well-Known Member
    UO:R Subscriber

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2013
    Messages:
    2,975
    Likes Received:
    2,297
    A dexxer can absolutely be deadly in a group, if the dexxer is worth their salt. They are, however, not the best option - according to the popular consensus.
    Even against a group of coordinated mages a dexxer can shine, it's just not often.

    The standard I like to apply: If you're on a stun mage versus 2+ other stun mages what do you believe your chances of success are? There are only a handful of pvpers on this server who would absolutely be confident in saying that they'd be just fine, I'm not one of them. I would, however, be more confident with those odds on my dexxer.

    If you want variety an still be viable in current group settings then I'd suggest a tank fencer mage.

    Below are some very old screenshots when I used to use my dexxers in factions. These were before the changes made to weapon damage and I did just fine back then. Granted, groups weren't as coordinated or seasoned as they are today, but I'd argue that it's still possible to go out and do work with a dexxer.

    upload_2016-12-27_12-2-38.png
    upload_2016-12-27_12-3-18.png
    upload_2016-12-27_12-3-57.png
    upload_2016-12-27_12-5-4.png
  13. Larloch

    Larloch Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2016
    Messages:
    1,244
    Likes Received:
    765
    Uh Hi, Lumberjacking is so OP. 2 hit death from 100 hp <-----guess that is not enough for you?

    How about the deadly poison dexer that is sticking aggy war forks up your ass? "hit with deadly poison, drink gcure, failed to cure.....cast arch cure....shit interrupted by hit, cast arch cure again, CURED! hit again with DP.....<--repeat?

    Dexers can swing and swing and swing and swing. Mages are limited to their mana pool; usually for offense and defense.

    Anymore dumb post needing answered?
  14. Mandevu

    Mandevu Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2012
    Messages:
    1,274
    Likes Received:
    680
    This is making me want to pull my dexxer back out. Dexxers are so unbelievably strong when played right.
  15. Mandevu

    Mandevu Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2012
    Messages:
    1,274
    Likes Received:
    680
    Also, DP Katanas are rape city.
  16. Mandevu

    Mandevu Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2012
    Messages:
    1,274
    Likes Received:
    680
    I do find it funny that cynic is talking about how good dexxers are, and then proceeds to post SS's of dudes getting dumped on by Mage syncs with his dexxer standing by lmao
  17. Larloch

    Larloch Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2016
    Messages:
    1,244
    Likes Received:
    765
    Thats it! A new DP dexer is being brewed

    #rapecity <------YIKES, maybe not.


    #doubleclickandstick
  18. Mes

    Mes Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2013
    Messages:
    2,350
    Likes Received:
    2,777
    he also had to go back to 2013 to even find them

    man it is 100% ok to like dexers and want to play them and want them to be better

    but this guy is looking for real talk about the state of the pvp meta on this server. Spending two hours digging through your dexer spank bank to produce 3 killshots isn't going to help the OP find the answers he's looking for. It's just like how blaise spawned generations of scribe macers with misinformation because he produced a volume of posts on the topic and not enough people told him to stop.

    the reality is that swords, macing, and archery have no place in this server's meta and you will always be better served using stun punch or a spear in a real fight

    btw those MSG guys were extremely laggy in the time they played here, beating them in a 3on1 was not a feat. And that roland of gilead guy was a world class <redacted>

    If dexers were good people then good people would be playing them. Sandro was great on his dexer but he still brought his mage to every fight he was serious about. It's not like noone has realized that katanas are fast yet or poison can be applied to weapons. This shit simply doesn't kill players since you can't guarantee you'll hit when you need to and anyone can just run the opposite direction and never die to you.

    If you think they're good then get out there and prove it. I'll be looking forward to seeing dexers on the top 10 of mounted combat leaderboards.
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 27, 2016
    Isabel and One like this.
  19. Mandevu

    Mandevu Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2012
    Messages:
    1,274
    Likes Received:
    680
    Im going full dexxer. The decision is final.
  20. Cynic

    Cynic Well-Known Member
    UO:R Subscriber

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2013
    Messages:
    2,975
    Likes Received:
    2,297
    Yep, old screenshots. Like I said, I just don't dexxer pvp as much as I used to. Then again, I don't pvp much anymore anyway and when I do it's logical to bring out the mage.
    For what it's worth I have tons of dexxer screenshots outside of CTF, but these were the ones I have from when my dexxer was in factions and actively engaged in a large field battle.. so yeah, for that I had to go back years for.

    Dexxers do just fine in groups if your group supports your decision to field a dexxer. That being said you're going to need to be that dexxer than can sneak in a gheal or two when your team mates are being dumped on.

    Sandro used his dexxer whenever he damn well felt like. The fight, odds, or importance had nothing to do with the price of tea in China. He was a beast with his dexxer and would routinely field his poison fencer in faction battles.

    You can absolutely outrun a dexxer if you don't want to fight them. You can do the same with a mage. The only argument I'm willing to concur with is the unreliability in damage. Sometimes you can use an LJ to 3 shot someone and sometimes you can sit there with a katana wondering when it'll finally land a hit.

    If LP was active for nox dexxers on this server you'd see a whole new ballgame.

Share This Page