What PvP changes would you like to see?

The free use and no loss concepts are to make the game more accessible to more casual and new players. You made the argument that without random teams you would be personally at a disadvantage against premade organized groups. While others told you this was your fault for not forming up a squad and getting on voice, I supported your position for the same reasons I supported the above. One of the beloved things about UO pvp during this era is that it was not an arms race or item based. It had a high skill ceiling but was easy to access and access to items was not a serious barrier.

Once again, I'm not asking for runic weapons to be nerfed. I just don't think there's any fair argument that the high end weapons need more damage. They already 2 and 3 shot easily. Yes, they do. Join CTF and look at the kills. But you already know this, I believe I saw you go 14-0 with your axer on a losing team.

I will define common equipment. GM - force weapons, barbed armor. That's accessible to most of the population that has GM skills.

Let me just get this shit right on out there: There are no more Newbies. People don't even leave the house until they're 7x now. This is modern day UO, especially on freeshards (no idea what's happening on OSI). As it stands on UOR here, it is cheaper than your first house to rock out a full invuln suit with a vanq weapon. Trying to dumb things down to suit some mystical newbie that doesn't exist in CTF is not going to help anyone. If you're not rocking Invuln armor, you're just being lazy or stubborn at this point. Sure, the day you hit the field you're not going to have that suit but the whole shard is supposed to wait for every newb to catch up before playing the game? Or better yet, let the newb get grounded a bit before dabbling. Even better still, they will have a great baseline to measure improvement if they do CTFs with the only gear they can afford early on.

The difference between their +25 vanq and anyone's valorite weapon is 4 damage. I swear the stigma damages more than the weapons. I was two hitting poorly armored players with a VERY VERY COMMON vanq large battle axe, in that screenshot I love to post.

That, and coupled with that fact that the most prominent maker of runic hammers actually sells charges on the open market? Please stop making up stories about newbies who can't compete because of an imbalance in item availability. They don't exist or just haven't learned to go make some gold and buy some good gear. It is not hard, complicated our out of reach for anyone who is interested.

But hey, what does it matter when a restock is just reagents and a kill is just saying 'drop' with a friend on the line.

At this point, it's like you guys are just arguing for the sake of arguing (guess that's always been your MO Blaise)

I mean, here napo and I are saying we think min damage should be higher so that newer/casual players can reasonably kill lizardmen and try CTF, and now you guys have all jumped to the opposite side of the argument just to tell us that newbies don't exist and nobody cares about them.

And if what you're lobbying for is higher damage across the board, I have to ask, what is your end game here? Is it just to protect and increase the value of the weapons that only you have access to or people have to get by buying from you? Is it one shotting because two shotting wasn't enough? Is it not enough that high end runic users are already by far the best killers in CTF?

Don't you think your attempts to buff yourself and nerf everyone else are seriously transparent?

You don't think newbies exist?
Go to Occlo right now.
There is a newbie in a death robe with a force maul asking template advice at the bank.
I guess it's easy to forget the exist since you sit in your stronghold with your bod stockpile and runic hammers, but new players do exist and I think CTF should be a safe venue for them to try pvp out.

The GM weapons only mode that was mentioned a few posts ago would be great for that, but I think a weapon crunch in general would be a great thing for new players. It would make it easier for them to kill orcs and air elementals with the weapons they have access to as well. Not everything is related to your ability to smash everyone with runics in CTF.

It's not that I don't think newbies exist, it's that I don't think they're going to be crying when they don't dominate CTF in their first week with their force maul. Part of what I enjoy about this game (and every RPG, really) is getting better over time. You're not going to do too well with a force maul your first week. So you come back the next week with the power war hammer you found on a fire elemental and start killing a couple people with it.

9/28/14
[19:29] <Lando> Can someone explain CTF for me? Can I new player participate?
[19:30] <Lando> well my best is a GM weapon and store bought armor
[19:30] <Lando> so, ok i'll bring my best


can you guys hurry over to IRC and tell this jackass to get fucked?

Bummer, so he's going to have zero fun and quit the shard after this?

This. Its super fun to save up and build up your ctf gear. Just like it is super fun to save up for your first house, and then upgrade and upgrade and upgrade until you have a fortress. Gm equipment baseline would be so lame. That said, runic damage is great where it is at. Shouldn't go up, shouldn't go down imo. Lower end could definitely come up though. GM weapons seem to not even want to penetrate the armor.

At least me personally, I'm not arguing that these weapons need to do more high-end damage. My testing showed they wouldn't 2-shot someone, yours showed they could (but it would literally be like a 1-in-200 chance or so). The only reason I'm arguing about damage is because someone exaggerated to try to prove a point, I actually tested, and called them on it.

BTW, the point about random teams is a good one. I just think coordinated teams are far more of an advantage than using a runic weapon.

The axer is good, but I sure never 2-shotted someone. It kind of relied on people being short on health when I found them, purple potions as I pursued them, or them getting stunned or stuck behind a wall or something. The fence-mage, which I used prior (and am using again today) is far better IMO. I think mages are much better suited for CTF, in general I think 1 mage is worth 1.25 dexers at least, regardless of weaponry and armor.

edit; actually, continue the circle jerk, I don't care again

This.


You know exactly wtf I meant by no more newbies. Meaning that it's very very easy to make the build-up here and the difference between a newbie to CTF and the top tier of CTF players is about a couple of weeks, give or take +4 damage. (even that can be made in a couple of weeks if you really apply yourself).
The number one killers in CTF have always been mages synching. Not everything is related to synching on "shitty dexers" either, napo. GM weapons mode assures that dexxers will stay as shitty as you need them to be to survive. Keep up the good dump.

You know my preferred template is fencing mage, right? To the point where both my factioners are fencing mages and my preferred red is also a fencing mage. The red I use second most is a macing mage.
I know you like to frame every issue as being dexers vs mages, but I also have an interest in weapon damage being competitive.

Part of the weapon crunch that I've suggested is that it will make weapons on the lower end of the spectrum more effective, which helps pvpers who often lose weapons and newbies that don't have access to high level weapons. I imagine it's frustrating for newbies to try to kill orcs when it's nothing but a stream of 2 and 5 damage hits because weapons are balanced around runics being absurdly powerful.
I mentioned the low-end benefits of a weapon crunch in my first post but I suspect that you didn't bother reading it because you were interested in framing this as a dexer vs mage argument, which tends to be your MO.

Nah, I read it but as soon as you say shitty dexxer, I think, fuck you.
Keep citing MOs and I'll keep lol'ing. I have one MO and that is a balanced shard. I don't see anyone saying there is NO problem with either hits or AR or wherever the problem lies.

I PvM, with weapons and I can tell you that all standard weapons are low end for PvM. This is the age of slayers and if you're not rocking them, you're quite literally cutting your damage potential in half.

+4 difference between val and vanq is not a great deal.

That has little to do with this.
That's a conversation about dueling, and yes, I think it's a shitty thing to do to bring a dexer carrying awesome weapons to a duel with pride (or whatever people expect from duels in that situation) on the line. Dexers tend to have the advantage over mages in 1v1 situations, though I doubt that's a statement you'd agree with.
I think that things that happen in trash talk should stay in trash talk though.

I think that you've been rich for so long that you've lost touch with the newbie experience. Not everyone can afford to slap down 320k for a high end slayer, particularly when they're farming for a house that costs less than the weapons you're expecting them to be buying so that they can farm. I'm actually strongly in favor of buffs for low end dexers - GM weapons should do more damage and the chance for mobs to break peacemaking when they take damage should be revised. On OSI, peace dexing was as effective as being a tamer but on this server peace dexers are pretty much worthless.
It seems like you want to dexing to be a rich man's game, but I don't really think you have such motives. I think you've just forgotten what it's like to play UO without people dumping millions of gold in your lap every time they quit.

320k for a high end slayer.....for a newb hunting orcs?
What fucking game are you even playing here. You can pick up an orc slaying weapon for probably free if you ask and go shred the dungeons like butter.

It seems like you're in outer space huffing fizzles from everything you're saying there. Peace dexxers are some of the most viable solo warrior templates in the game. Much easier to run than a tamer really as well. Dexxing here is not even remotely a rich man's game, is what I'm saying. I don't want it to be either. I would love to see actual value, worth crafting and selling, in weapons and metal armor but unless you do a shard wipe, it's not going to happen for a long time. The prevalence of high end magic weapons is just too great. I'd be truly surprised if you could say you've never heard anyone being shocked at how cheap vanqs are here. Let's compound that with the fact that everyone who's saved coin buying a cheap vanq, can use PoF on it until the end of time. The damn things will NEVER BE DESTROYED.

I think you've just forgotten what it's like to play, period. I've earned more than my fair share of loot in this game through play and dedication. The people who leave stuff to me generally do so because they know I don't care about it even remotely as much as I care about them leaving the shard.

For the record, I still play with junk gear, the old fashioned way on my naturalist. Perhaps not as often as I'd like, as it impedes my ability to help folks on the shard (I tend to stay in character and not let myself be distracted on that character). Please show me the list of people who play like that and are discouraged by the availability of weapons to play free-use CTF with.

Oh hey Blaise, I see you're replying to me now that you're done shitting on newbies at CTF. I heard Bart racked up 14 kills at that one, and several people have told me that your team was deliberately targeting the weak ones. Sounds like everybody had a ton of fun, I can't wait until the next CTF.

Anyway, if you have an doubts about slayer weapons I hear there are some threads up on trade where they're being sold
I'll just head over there to take a quick look while I'm typing this out

"Notable Slayers: ALL S/B 50k"
Here's a 50k bid on all slayers

+10 Force Exorcism Large Battle Axe - 75k

+20 Power Balron Damnation Bow - 50k

+10 Power Reptillian Death Battle Axe -75k

+25 Force Exorcism War Hammer - 50k

+10 Force Demon Dismissal Exec. Axe - 50k

here are some big bids too

Oh here's you posting in the thread, but still coming back here and telling me that slayers are cheap and any newbie should be able to use them.


I guess you can pick up a shitty repond weapon with no damage modifier, but the slayers that are worth a shit appear to be more expensive than the houses that newbies would be trying to buy. Are you blowing smoke up my ass on purpose or what?
By the way, peace dexers are not good at all. It was the first thing I tried when I got here and it failed miserably. Caster mobs are deadly as shit, and they break peace so easily at low health that you can't prevent them from gibbing you with spells. I bet you don't even have a peace dexer, do you? Have you even played one?

peacemaking sucks, for the love of god take the timer off of it at least. That way you can keep that crap from mercing you and you can peace hide.

and as always I'm on the reduce fails hypetrain

That was a particularly one-sided match. Probably the most one-sided I've seen recently. Three of the four people on red who had a rough go of it were orcs, so it's not like they're gonna quit. That's kinda their whole playstyle. And the fourth guy, I spent some time talking to at the bank earlier in the evening about the best way to farm gold and such. Also bought 75k of stuff from him, so he can certainly afford pretty high-end CTF gear.

EDIT: wrong image, can't find the right one with the CTF scores.