What PvP changes would you like to see?

We can forget the bolas, just make a special move with a heavy crossbow to dismount

i know i'm not supposed to be negative here, but most of the suggestions in this thread are either wrong-headed or made by players who have no vested interest in any pvp systems. most are both.

Most of the posts you make are either wrong-headed* or do not provide any insight or information to help solve the problems you report. At the very least, take a second to explain why you feel the suggestions are wrong-headed*.

*I have no idea what this means, but it makes me picture an Ettin so that's funny and I'm gonna use it from now on.

Movie Physics 4tw!

Wrong-headed? What's so wrong about poisoned arrows, I've actually played on a shard in which it worked very well and was fairly balanced with the pvp mechanics. It simply offered a different way in which to apply poison damage at a distance.

If by vested in PvP you mean factions, then no, I don't play factions here and probably never will as I played factions for quite some time on production shards and simply burnt out on it. I do, however, PvP and I'm out there quite often so I have a vested interest in what happens regarding PvP on this shard.

Dismounts are a slippery slope and if you take some alts and make stealther/dismount bots PvP gets downright STUPID IMO. I've seen it in action and it's LAME. Dismount, attack mount, kill dude on foot, wash, rinse, repeat limp dick shit which would give rise to a new breed of asshat zergs and I personally wouldn't want to see that happen on this shard.

dalavar, i made my post vague because i do not believe there is anything to be gained by arguing with people who do not understand the subject of the argument. i will, however, humor you.

no one that is pvping now cares about parry. no one except blaise and bart have stuck their neck out for the "parry needs to be better" issue, and neither of those people have any clout when it comes to an understanding of pvp mechanics or current pvp culture.

doesn't pvp. no pvpers care about this.

doesn't pvp. pet project not related to pvp.

this issue has already been decided. dead weight.

perhaps doesn't pvp, although this is probably the best suggesting ITT as it is a serious problem that certainly exists with overwhelming agreement.

i personally implemented this on Angel Island. it completely changed the meta there and contributed generously to that server's image as a "Custom server".
(those are bad things)

doesn't pvp. archery sucking is a legitimate problem that imo holds a medium-low priority.

lol.


i have posted a number of censuses that have received attention from actual pvpers and Telamon has hosted several IRC chats with the players of factions, neither of which have resulted in any changes. so really, dalavar, you'll excuse me if i roll my eyes a bit at this inane f'ing thread.

you argue these naively in a different thread, but many of them are issues that players who depend upon these systems as their main source of enjoyment from this server will tell you affect those players on a daily basis.

i really just wanted to express that this thread is about as productive as a Liberation post.

No one is asking you to argue, I just figured there would be some quick hits you could post about some of these suggestions. Things like "doesn't pvp" isn't a rational basis for shit-canning an idea. "Doesn't pvp" implies there's something blatantly wrong with the idea, that stems from a lack of pvp experience. If that's the case... tell us what that is. That's all I'm looking for; I figured it would be easy.

As far as "no one cares about this"... lots of people care about parry, for example. You cite Blaise and Bart, and I know Gideon started a thread about it, and I spent a ton of time testing it to determine why it wasn't as functional here as it was in era. We need to get past this whole notion of assuming our small circle of people we interact with is representative of the entire shard. I'd much rather see the players discuss the merits of ideas, come up with a really polished suggestion of how to implement it, and then let Chris decide what order of development makes sense, because he's the only one with any idea of the diverse interests of the shard. If ideas aren't getting vetted by players beyond "you don't pvp, so it's not even worth my time to comment on this", we're not taking advantage of the wisdom of the crowds at all.

Libby, If you couldn't see the sarcasm regarding the Chivalry comment then you really missed the bus.

I also agree with Dalavar, that if someone's idea comes from outside of your little PvP clique then it must obviosly have no merit is an arrogant and misguided viewpoint that only acts as a self-serving and subjective attempt to validate your "group's" personal opinions regarding PvP on this server.

I've been around the block a few times and this isn't my first rodeo, everyone that plays here has a voice and for you and the other "5x mages are the only temps that require skill" bandwagon need to realize that PvP is not relegated to 5x only. I let go of that childish shit back in 2003.

ALL templates should be able to have representation here, not just a few 5x macro mashers who simply can't get used to the idea that people like to play other temps and after 17+ years of this game like to experiment with different things, sorry you're just now finding UO and are caught up in the wonder and amazement that is (EXPLODE, POISON, CLUMSY, CLUMSY, MINDBLAST, MINDBLAST)

If by pvp you mean make characters named after prominent players and go PK on them, then you're right, I don't PvP. Otherwise you have no foot to stand on to dictate who does or doesn't PvP here. It is not binary and there is no amount of PvP that mandates who can or cannot speak their mind about the mechanics therein. But hey, thanks for being a pompous arrogant piece of trash about it. Color me shocked that nothing you've demanded be changed, actually got changed, idiot.

Productivity is in the eye of the beholder. If people want to have a conversation about the mechanics, this is the place to do it. Whether you agree or not can be shown in your replies but everyone who's ever engaged in combat with another player has every right to voice their opinions on said combat.

Parry has a place in combat and just because 5x mage fanboys don't care about melee, doesn't mean there's no room for it in PvP. I'm still fairly certain the best way to beat Perseus in a tourney that allows his template, will be with Parry, but I haven't had the opportunity to test that much. But hey, why bother considering anything else that is actually combat related when we can focus on things that Liberation cares more about?

I mean, this is a waste of typing:

Your prioritization is not representative of the interests of the shard as a whole. Which in this case is pretty important since this would impact PvM as well. Archery sucks for most things, not just pvp, and "fixing" it is of interest to many more players than just pvpers.

Furthermore, given that the suggestion in question is an exact copy of a mechanic that exists already, with one attribute replaced by another, it may well take all of 5 minutes to change in the code. Either way, I don't think this prioritization is for us to decide.

"doesn't pvp" isn't a critique of an idea, it is an attribute of the issuer of the idea which illustrates that said issuer does not have any skin in the game. it's like asking celebrities about politics.

the fact of the matter is that most pvpers don't come to the forums and debate with you and blaise because there is nothing to be gained from it.

my prioritization of these issues is based upon conversations with 13+ people who are deeply involved in pvp on this server.

topic title: "What PvP changes would you like to see?"

[edit: i should add on this point that i fully concede that i do not understand the priority that pvmers place on archery. i am not an expert and have no vested interest in pvm. furthermore, i would never try to wedge my opinion into a discussion on the merits of archery in pvm.]

Good, then keep your conversations with your 13+ people to yourself and enjoy all the changes that you have no input on coming down the pipe. Well played, genius.

The real fact of the matter is the majority of pvpers are just inclined to complain about things and demand changes under threat of quitting. I can think of fewer than a dozen PvPers on this shard that can maturely debate a topic without being bitches and saying shit like "doesn't pvp" in order to shut down a conversation they have no good argument for.

Keep it coming.

13 people represents this shard's PvP community? Or is this simply 13 people who think that this shard's PvP community would not survive without them? I fail to see how the opinion of 13 egocentric pixel-worshippers trumps anyone else's opinion regarding the topic of PvP discussion as it applies to this server.

By pixel-worshippers, I mean those that feel they are the only ones who have any vested interest in a GAME due to their perceived success in said GAME despite the fact they are a minority within the game's population as a whole.

i feel like when DarkWing calls you out for language in IRC and then you get a second warning about it and instead of calming down you type out a line of obscenity and then quit IRC, you forfeit your claim to maturity.

so, how do you feel about the Ukraine?

If an ad hominem is the best someone can come up with against a particular idea, then it's undefeated in my eyes.

For sure, most pvpers are focused on rewarding activities like arguing in IRC about precisely how many people were present in their most recent fight, and compiling their lifetime record against other players by coming through jpg files saved in their Razor screenshot folder. Super productive, and I can see why they wouldn't want to step away from that.

That being said, this is a Felucca server, and pvp mechanics impact everyone. Not only because they usually apply to PvM too, but also because anyone can attack me at any time using these pvp mechanics. And I must defend myself using these pvp mechanics. So letting the people who attack me without my consent make up all the rules about how attacking people works, seems like it's not in my best interests.

no, about ~25 people represent this shard's PvP community. i truthfully have access to honest conversations with only about 13 of them.

it doesn't trump them, but it is representative of those to which these systems matter the most and to those who understand the repercussions of changes to each mechanic in context of le pvp.

you realize, of course, that you only think this because it is your only point of contact with any pvpers at all. you make my point for me.

you're right. my bad. you guys keep making up the rules.


have fun.

Never claimed to be one of them. I quit IRC so I can avoid wasting my breath talking more shit to people who I feel are more than deserving.

By repercussions, you mean a tilt in the balance regarding temp dominance?

The title of the thread is "What PvP changes would you like to see?"

So everyone's suggestion is valid...

Even if they do not belong to a super secret and terrific PvP club.

Oh, and Lib thanks for your cheap regs...super helpful.

Almost as helpful as bolas would be...

Maybe you should field questions to people who are not part of the current PVP community. You want PVP to grow? You need to get people involved who are not currently as active as they could be in PVP. You are pushing an agenda of active PVPers, which is good I suppose, but bias. There are a lot of people on this server who could be part of the "PVP community" but if you shit on their ideas because "no one who pvps cares about this" then you're not providing a platform for growth. You're part of the problem.