Wouldst thou flee during the heat of battle...

Again, i'll have to disagree.

Its all too easily abused and it predominately rewards the ganking playstyle. Everyone keeps talking about finishing through with a fight that someone starts and that might be fine and dandy at first, but we all know how this works out in the end.

It doesn't actually do anything to keep fights fair. If anything, it ensures a situation where unfair fights and cheap tactics cannot be countered.

I said it in my previous post and i'll say it again. This is just creating an easily abused mechanic for PK's to get cheap kills with. I've seen it happen quite a lot already. Its quite possibly the worst mechanic i've seen on this shard thus far and it needs to be removed before players start really taking advantage of this well-intentioned, but completely broken and unbalanced mechanic.

Blaise: This mechanic is completely unrealistic and as such, you shouldn't support it.

How? You keep chattering about abuse and blah blah, but I'm failing to see the correlation here. If someone doesn't aggro you they are free to leave. How is a PK abusing this again? I mean, granted, I could see people coming in and jumping on Blade Spirits to effectively restrict someone's escape but there's ALWAYS feet and if you run Blades or EVs, you brought that risk on yourself.

In consensual combat, I do not think it is appropriate, but for the sake of CRIMINAL activity, I still think it is fitting.


The way I see it, it puts some challenge into the ganking playstyle because everyone who engages is effectively then committed to that gank and can't just up and bail the millisecond the tides turn.

Lightshade's Guide to Gank Newbs and Destroy the Shard:

1. Find Solo Farmer.
2. Engage Solo Farmer.
3. Wait for Solo Farmer to fight back thinking its a fair fight.
4. Call in Gank Squad.
5. Laugh at Solo Farmer when he tries to run from a completely unfair fight and can't.
6. Gank and Dry Loot Solo Farmer.
7. Rinse and Repeat till we have the same Reputation on UOR that UOSA has.

Yeah...

Let's create this situation because we're upset that someone ran away from us with their tail between their legs and we missed a chance to increase our e-peen... Makes perfect sense...

Great Idea, Guys....

great idea....

:roll:

Yeah, because there's so many PKs that send out a scout and don't just roll in with the squad. Practically NO one fights back because most solo farmers are bards or tamers who just want to bail when PKs show up.

If you ENGAGE that is YOUR PROBLEM and you should understand the consequences. I have recall macros for a reason.

The situation you invented doesn't happen here and/or hasn't in the year+ I've been here (at least that I've heard anyone mention, ever) so we can fabricate random scenarios that don't happen all day, it doesn't make it a good argument for removing the restriction.

The fact that you can't carry pre-cast through gates is enough of a restriction to negate the craptastic UOSA gate-gankers and the criminal recall restriction at least keeps them in the area for a moment providing enough time for retaliation, if so desired.

You're simply wrong, Blaise. Its already happening.

Terrible Mechanic.

Terrible.

To who? C^V out there getting themselves killed now trying to fight PKs with their bards?

I've literally never seen it happen and if you're falling victim to it, you're perhaps terrible at knowing when to fight or take flight?

No. I laughed at the PK's that tried to use this tactic on me as I healed myself and mocked them for being bad at UO till the timer ran out.

Point being, I shouldn't have had to sit there and endure the onslaught just because I was trying to defend myself.

Its meant to stop the gank squads from running away and receiving no punishment for their crimes, but it simply doesn't accomplish this in practice.

It punishes the PvM'er for standing up for himself while doing nothing to mitigate the abuse of a gank squad....because a Gank Squad can keep itself healed up long enough for that timer to run out.

It effectively changes nothing because help arriving rarely gets there before the timer runs out....and that is assuming that the player in question has a group of people to call upon....and that group of people is online...and that group of players has runes there...and that group of players aren't tied up such that they cannot respond...and that the reds didn't just wander off to a quiet spot of the dungeon to wait out the timer...

It was a well-intentioned mechanic that does not actually change anything and only punishes a player that chooses to defend themselves. The ganking changes not at all...only difference is we "hold the 'good guy' down" while we beat him instead of letting him run away.

Meh, never bothered me from that perspective so I'm not seeing eye to eye on that as 'common' or in anyone's regular practice here. If you're ready to fight back, you're ready to cope with the restriction of actually having that fight or fleeing the hard way. If you want to really just defend yourself, you can Recall out immediately. It is the best defense.

Perhaps removing the prohibition on fleeing Flag if a 'defender' is subsequently attacked by additional players would remove this abuse....?

To be re-instated if they continue to attack back...?

I'd be on board with that. I really just don't want someone to come in and start a fight only to realize they picked the wrong fight and be gone in one stroke of a hotkey. If I'm not ready to stick around, I won't engage.

Same thing with thieves, I want a chance to actually reclaim my goods rather than realize I got robbed when I see the Kal Ort Por and have literally no recourse.

Me likey

Oh I don't know blaise, I would probably attack a PK before they attacked me if they came to kill me, and that would ruin my ability to give a count even if I technically should be the victim, and prevent my recall during and immediately after the battle. It's very annoying.

I've been annoyed by that as well but as I've already said, if you choose to engage, that is your decision alone. Fight or flight, the risk is up to you.

This sounds good to me. A good compromise.

See, the thing is, you might not take many noobs out hunting, and when you do, you might just feel like leaving them stranded. When I'm hunting with C^V, I feel personally responsible for my members, and any new players we are hunting with, as such, I will always attack reds to allow my friends to recall out. When they are all out, then I might recall IF I'm still alive. This mechanic ensures I don't.

I really don't care one way or the other because (1) I don't care if I die, and (2) I will continue to do what I do regardless of the mechanic, so...I guess I don't have a bone in this fight, I just wanted to say that yes, we in C^V will fight PK's with our bards to help our own. And you'd be surprised that sometimes we even kill a PK or 5.

Thanks for sharing. For what it's worth, you're right, I don't take many noobs out hunting lately. However, I've never felt like leaving anyone stranded, nor have I actually done so. I actually teach everyone I can how to setup a proper recall macro. Unless we have a contingent of actual fighters with us, in which case, we make a general plan of defense in the unlikely instance that a force capable of killing us should arrive. So no, I'm just not 'always' going to attack reds, especially on my 0 Resist/Eval bard or bard tamer.

In short, the mechanic only ensures that you spend at least two minutes in a battle you MADE THE DECISION TO JOIN. Don't want to fight, take flight. Pretty simple.

I contest your notion Blaise. The common tactic of most gank squads is to provide their prey approximately -10.4596 seconds to decide to fight or flee. It's easier to say "make the choice" when you're analyzing the situation from the forums, but when you are in game and you're already dealing with a handicap of -10.4596 seconds, the luxury of making that decision is all but gone.

In combat, if you are only 1 person you must make your opponent believe that you are 10, if your forces are 10, you must make them think you are 100. Therefore I often choose to run head on into the reds.

In short, I think something should be done to identify the innocent and enable the virtuous.

Jupiter swoons Pirul You're my HERO!

What if a person who is 'perma grey' or 'perma red' have a delay trigger the anti-flight? Meaning if you attack a Red/Perma Grey you must be engaged in battle for at least 5 mins, at which point you can no longer flee from the fight (I believe at that point you have decidedly chosen to stick it out). Whereas on the other hand, if you are just trying to buy time for your comrades to depart, you can.

Give me 30 seconds, and I'm golden!

I agree, 30 seconds would sufficiently make up for the -10 second handicap.

In UO a lot can happen in 30 seconds. Hell, the sun can set in Sosaria in that amount of time.

Yeah, seriously 5 minutes is forever in combat. The two minute timer is plenty if not slightly overkill.

Personally, the decision is almost always made before I even get settled into a hunt. If I'm with a party, we will have a brief chatter about what the plan is, if we are accosted.
The 10s you speak of is more than enough time for me to act on that plan accordingly.