More links (forgive any repeats) http://uo.stratics.com/content/professions/rogue_archive.shtml ^ Playing the Thief: Success: When you steal from a blue, or innocent player, there are four possible outcomes. You will either be successful and noticed, unsuccessful and noticed, successful and unnoticed, or unsuccessful and unnoticed. When you are successful and noticed, you will be flagged gray, denoting yourself as a criminal, and you will also be permagray to your target, meaning that until you die, he will see you as gray. If you are successful and unnoticed, you have successfully stolen the item without being seen, and you will appear blue to everyone. If you were unsuccessful but noticed, you will be a criminal and gray, but not permagray. Lastly, if you are unsuccessful and unnoticed, no change takes place. http://www.andrea.net/uo/general/screenshots/screen40.shtml http://askcorran.com/belan/episodes.html http://askcorran.com/episodes/episode.htm http://noctalis.com/dis/uo/blast02a.shtml (for fun, rainz was a thief if you didn't know) http://uorforum.com/threads/use-of-old-website-screenshots-for-fel-accuracy.2345/ (my last attempt at a thief accuracy thread, derailed and insulted by Blaise and Gideon)
I think because of all the reasons in my previous post thieving has substantial grounds to state that it deserves a content boost to make up for the lack of incoming new players that it is traditionally heavily reliant upon. I totally support this though I don't know what else there is to consider when allocating resources.
I don't think the issue is "did it happen or not" at all. The issue on the table should be does it have a place here? Should a member of the thieve's guild be able to successfully steal an item, without a notice text crawl, and remain blue (innocent) flagged on x% occasion? Should NPC's and players be able to see a member of the thieve's guild use the stealing skill through "walls" and count in the "noticed or not" formula? etc... etc... Again, doesn't matter if it was available in the "era" or not imo. There undeniably were some things during that period that a majority would agree are best left "not accurate".... and some that aren't present here that would be a boon to the player experience.
I was told in irc today that thieves could never steal and stay blue in era by Chris, that's why I'm emphasizing that you could. You might was well just take out stealing and go full on trammel with the option to pk. If I gave up my thieves and gave up hope for stealing changes and made a goal that I was going to start pking until I got #1 on the pk leader board to beat Bart's chars and Mes, would I get banned like Pork Fried Rice did when he came back? I'd have to do a lot of work to match the 50k + kills on the top leaderboards but stealing is bad, hmmmkayyy. lol
You know, Jack, I think you're a staple in this community, it's just too bad that you get moody and outright psychotic so often. Over the years you have professed your love for being a thief, always critiquing, always proposing changes. From a quick scan of the forums it looks like a majority of the responses were in YOUR FAVOR. Not to mention that Gideon only ever responded once and Blaise only ever responded to debate you. Not once did I see those guys flat out insult you. In reality it's been you, for years, who has an uncontrollable demeanor both in game and on irc/forums. You're that wildcard that is either really great to hold a conversation with or bat shit crazy. These links I have posted here are from a quick scan of the forums, not once do I see anyone shooting your thieving changes down or insulting you without provocation. You have a cycle, it's clear. You ask for changes, complain about the lack of changes, go on a rant, then go off the deep end. You're then banned from comm's and you threaten to quit. You don't like how others play this game, but that's you're own issue. You hate PK's and you hate idoccers. You lump those whom you hate into a pool of staff favorites. It's getting rather silly. There's the right way in being constructive on this server and then there's Jack;s way. Stealing Changes: http://uorforum.com/threads/my-thread-on-stealing-oddities.4836/page-2 Stealing Changes: http://uorforum.com/threads/stealing.8666/ Stealing Changes: http://uorforum.com/threads/stealing.9966/page-2 Stealing Changes: http://uorforum.com/threads/stealing-in-town-is-infeasible.14159/page-3 Stealing Changes: http://uorforum.com/threads/stealing-platinum-bugged.8287/ Stealing Changes: http://uorforum.com/threads/stealing.4114/page-3 Screenshot Thread: http://uorforum.com/threads/jack-of-shadows-screenshot-thread.10041/ Screenshot Thread: http://uorforum.com/threads/theft-of-the-month.2767/page-2 You're unstable: http://uorforum.com/threads/perma-ban-from-irc.8229/ TT telling you you're crazy: http://uorforum.com/threads/our-noble-pks-or-alternate-caption-what-it-takes-to-be-pro-here.5269/ You're on drugs: http://uorforum.com/threads/where-do-babies-come-from.2762/
I want to say something like "justice against thieves should be left more in the hands of the people than the guards". But what Hiji Zuru said is accurate. The way stealing is setup now really is dependant on having targets that are unaware and unprepared. Ie; nooblets (of which there is nothing wrong with being, we've all been there at some time). And leaving them defenseless isn't very reasonable either. There need to be even mechanics for both the victim and the perpetrator. As a part-time thief myself, i would be interested in seeing some changes in our favor. But i wouldn't want to see them come in a way that sabotages the mass play experience for the community. Whatever changes could come shouldn't be concerned with era accuracy as they should with fitting the UOR playstyle. As Chris and GJ and a few others said... We're already doing our own version of Renaissance at this point. I think it would be entirely fitting to do away with any issues of x-ray vision. That for sure is not ok for any NPC. **I rarely town steal so my knowledge on this is iffy. And the amount of guards present could be turned down. The town crier should be busy hollaring his own propaganda and not paying attention to where my hands are. The guys in city center screaming about Jesus NEVER yell for the police. And most NPC's should just mind their business unless they are very close to the theft. These are all realistic!
i dont know the correct era mechanics and i dont know the mechanics here, but i wouldnt be opposed to having a successful steal not flag the thief and without a message so long as the thief is perma gray after.
Perma grey mechanics aside, when the initial act of theft happens I still advocate the thief to go grey for the victim so that they clearly understand what just occurred and allow them to recover the item. However, calling the guards will be ineffective. The players will be required to recover their own item because it was stolen so cleverly that the guards didn't witness a crime occurring but the gods did. Edit: could be a very small chance it occurs....guards should still guardwhack if called in most cases. I am no thief, but I do tend to be a victim and this seems reasonable. It also seems like its the case right now tbh. I lose shit all the time and no guard help.
There was a guy at Occlo bank doing this last week on Thursday trying to bait fights. I wish I could remember his name but he was shit talking the server because he couldn't find some idiot who would flag on his grey ass. It was like 11am on a weekday at a noob bank. Like WTF m8.
I support re-evaluation and changes of stealing mechanics. I was also a thief on Catskills and Siege Perilous during the Renaissance era and the mechanics here are vastly different from not "what I remember," but from what I know to be true. I am all for supporting our new player community, but what we started in and what the players of today start in are two different things. Think about the game you are introducing to our new players. I was introduced when people would beg for gold or weapons so they could run back to the Brit Graveyard to fend off PK's so they could reach their body. Today people enjoy the benefits of achieving the "Lord" title, a full suit of valorite armor and a runic weapon all while enjoying the benefits of a Young player status. That alone should scream that the mechanics of this system needs to be revisited. My point is that we have catered to new players so much already, and one of the key points in opposing any changes to the current stealing mechanic is, "it's unfair to them" or "they don't know what's happening.' If that's the case then, make a warning or disclaimer of thieves upon exiting the New Player Program. Or make NPC thieves and/or monsters wander around and steal shit so our new players can understand the mechanics of the stealing. A side note: Field PVP is sparse. As a thief on Siege Perilous with no stat-loss for reds, field PVP was abundant. Due to everyone in the field fighting each other, it left an open inventory for thieves to come in and help themselves. I don't hate our current stat-loss system. I played murderers in the Renaissance-era and it is what it is, but in our current situation, we've scared our only PK's into playing in groups and forcing them to gate-hop from one PVM spot to another while rolling 5+ deep all-the-while crippling any chance at field combat. Honestly, I understand it. I roleplay a murderer, but as a PK in field combat, risking stat-loss to earn ~50 each reagents or a power weapon just isn't worth it. Some of you may have the opinion of, that's how the system was so get over it.. But you have to look at and realize the trickle down effect of this system. Our player base isn't big enough to support stat-loss. We need people fighting around moon gates instead of harassing those in dungeons farming. It drives the community, emboldens PVP and benefits thieves in one fell swoop. The gain of this is it drives the tamers and bards out farming weapons to supply our field battles. It gives more reason to the merchants out gathering reagents and supplies to sell in bulk. Sure there's factions, but Reds vs Blues is just convenient and at-will when there is no stat-loss. Rolling a faction character when the population can't support it, is really just a burden on yourself as a player. All in all, I love this server, it's most everything I could ask for. I feel like most suggestions are mistaken for bitching or whining, but most fail to realize that we are just passionate about the long-run of this server and only want to help. I appreciate Chris and all the staff for their sacrifices and like my ex-fiance used to say, "I only bitch because I love you." Good night, thanks for reading.
Im taking the risk to post my opinion... Thievery in general need a overhaul. Not only the stealing mechanics. While I agree that memory is not always reliable, in this case this is your best bet. Old patchs notes and articles are interpreted differently depending on who reads them. There is one question i've been asking myself over the last few years playing here : How did it come to this ? Tamers with extra slots and Bonded pets while Thieves and other non-standards templates get all the NERFS? I don't mind making peoples favorite template over-powered really.. I can work around it ... But now the thief templates have a bunch of game mechanics to deal with (trade timer, blessed items, monster loot, etc). Making it one of the hardest template to play. Were not the only template that need some attention (bards, archer, mace and sword melee, potions timers) But we thieves and pks are also what make UO so special. I will just go play my own version of RUNUO if i want to play a tamer a rake money all day
I turned my thief into a disarm thief for a day. Utterly pointless here. About as pointless as stealing anything here really.
