PSA: Griefing

[11:59] <L|Work> PSA: when someone does something that you don't like, it is not necessarily "griefing."
[12:00] <L|Work> especially when their activities are based upon your recklessness
[12:00] <L|Work> stealing isn't griefing.. PKing isn't griefing.. attending a harrower isn't griefing.. killing sheep in public isn't griefing.

Just to play devils advocate here...

"Griefing refers to the act of a player ruining the gaming experience of another player "

Griefing really pertains to everything you mentioned, and, at the same time it doesn't. It's really up to the victim and how he/she feels.

From what I hear, because I wasn't in attendance, about what happened at the last harrower is, in my eyes, griefing.

If you're coming to raid a spawn to take the spawn, that's one thing. If you're coming to raid a spawn to PK that's one thing. If you're coming to raid a spawn and just annoy everyone by luring/blocking/noto killing/etc.. then, well, I could consider that griefing... but that's just me.

You could also consider someone marking your CY and making you move your entire keep griefing... just food for thought.

I think it really comes down to intent. If your goal is to piss people off, that is grief. If you're just playing the game and people get mad because you beat them, that is their own problem. PKing and stealing is just playing the game, even if you don't appreciate it.

I got a 3 day griefing ban on prodo once. I was standing overtop a bank sitter so you couldn't see his pixils (glacial staff and all) and they got so pissed they paged a gm. I was shocked I was banned That was about the time you could grab a banned for saying owned (because it was racist?) but you could say pwn all you want, cause it made it magically different lol.




Ke$ha just told me to tell you guys to grow a pear.

my point is that everyone is saying that everything is griefing lately and it's becoming silly.

cynic:

of course my OP is an oversimplification, but i think people understand the point that i was trying to make.

regarding the harrower:

i showed up to that harrower just hoping to get plat. i was PKed and told that i wasn't welcome. is that griefing?

i then began setting a timer for 5 minutes and running back only to be PKed again. is this griefing? if so, am i griefing them? are they griefing me?

I agree with Blaise's definition of griefing. That said, Jack's example - while I do generally dislike griefing - is funny to me.

Most griefing is hidden behind a shoddy explanation to make it not come off as griefing. That, IMO, is how you know someone is ashamed of their actions but doesn't have the will to stop themselves. It's a power thing; those with low power in some situations can briefly feel better if they exert their power in other situations when they have it. It's truly impressive to me when people can, but don't (I'm pretty sure that's the plot of the first half of every Steven Seagal movie, so you know I'm going deep here).

While it is sometimes fun to turn around and punch someone in the mouth when you can - and especially fun to see their reactions when they get hit even just once - I find it more satisfying to ignore griefers. If you spend time trying to fight back, you'll win some and lose some. If you ignore it and keep doing what you yourself enjoy in this game, you'll go undefeated.

Hmm

It's been quite some time since I played a server with a trammel facet, so I had forgotten how much I disliked the way the word gets thrown around in UO.

It really has become best defined as "things I don't like"

The Harrower that Liberation(we) 'griefed' went down like this:

We planned to come uninvited, but agreed in advance we would not bring reds and we would not attack players.

Once we got there, Stranger let us know Liberation specifically couldn't be there and I told him he was quite welcome to take counts if he had a problem with it.

He and Sunshine then proceeded to take counts for a naked Liberation who simply ressed and returned every so often with a smiley face, until they were both red. Stranger left, frustrated saying we had ruined the harrower. Sunshine took statloss twice from what I heard (probably from not understanding game mechanics) and apparently also did not receive platinum, which we were told was our fault, although I truly don't understand why.

There were things that happened near the end, like some dragons getting lured into tentacles, but actually not by Lib, although I would have certainly understood considering how he was welcomed.

Stranger went onto say PwN as a guild was through, and we were in for a world of hurt, yadda yadda. All I had to do was show up and hit the harrower and watch a flood of private messages.

http://pastebin.com/8b6zbckA

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Griefer

Although after reading through these definitions I think that we play UO just so that we can do things like grief on some scale or another. I wouldn't recall around to popular locations everyday if I wasn't, somewhat expecting, to find other players to mingle with. It just so happens that this game allows for us to 'mingle' with these characters in a variety of ways and many of which are negative or 'grief' oriented.

This subject is especially touchy here because although I am a fan of everything you are allowed to do in our game, I find it conflicting with keeping our population levels high and happy.

So, in reference to our Wikipedia definition, I would have to say much of what we do here on a daily basis is "griefing". However, I also believe that definition does not apply to our own personal UOR definition of what griefing is and we need to make our own definition.

Don't get me wrong, I was only playing devils advocate, I really couldn't care less what anyone does to enjoy this game in their own way.

Spawns and Harrowers are touchy subjects. Some people feel that if you didn't contribute in any way then you shouldn't be part of the reward. I, for one, have been guilty of showing up at the end many times myself. I understand how this can be frustrating to some and have since stopped.

I don't know why you're not welcome at their spawns or harrowers so I really can't comment on that.. It really seems, at least to me, that this boils down to a grudge between a handful of people that ends up effecting others who want nothing to do but kill monsters. Hence, why people think they are being griefed.

I think you're absolutely right, officer. At the time I told Stranger I didn't even think he had the power to stop his guild/those people from spawning (when he said they were going to war instead.) They would go right on without him, uninterested in his personal problems. And as far as I can tell, that's exactly what they did. He will seethe for a bit and then he'll be back beside them doing the same old things.

Months ago I had urged him to put his grudges in the past and pursue things that he really enjoyed in the game. He did pretty well really - I didn't imagine he'd be the GM of the largest guild of active players. But I think the daily struggle to suppress his rage got the better of him.

It takes a sweet person like Lib or Blaise or Matron to bring that out in a person, I suppose.

I would hope that anyone who has done spawns at all with pwn these past few weeks, and also anyone who knows mes in the slightest can see this for the bullshit that it is.

This is also bullshit. You never told me that. And I never tried to destroy the guild completly. I turned the stone over to a guildie and told him that I hope the group continues to go on and prosper. Probably 20 of the 67 or so members quit as soon as I announced sunshine and I were done. The reason I gave for us being done was that we were switching our playstyle so that a handful of players that currently think they can ruin any event at anytime they want to will not continue to roll around unchecked. I know that most pvpers have incredible egos and I didnt want pwn to be associated with me and sunshine and incure the wrath of some ego juiced pks who want to go take their frustrations with us out on bards and tamers. If I wanted to halt the spawns and end pwn then I would have simply gbooted everyone and removed them from the guild house friends list. I said pwn was done because I am done with it, and I anticipated that you would continue to try and force your will on the pve'ers in the group that no longer have any affiliation with me, and from what i've been told, I was correct. I am not the two face and underhanded bastard that you are, so I do not feel the need to keep logs of every irc conversation I have to prove my one sided agenda.

instead of respond to each sentence I think any thoughts i have are summed up here http://uorforum.com/threads/the-300-pound-gorilla-team-trammel.5015/#post-36855

good company, indeed.

I love you.

this will be my last response to the smear campaign I already knew you would launch against me and sunshine to try and absolve yourself of all blame and continue to be "An honor to be killed by" and "The nicest pk ever". also neither I or sunshine will respond to any of the irc trolling you've been directing at us either, so you will have to find some other way to stroke your ego.

I'll stroke his ego, or anything else he wants anytime

House killing is griefing... and it's a bunch of crap that you can be killed within your 4 walls behind a locked door anyway. I don't give a shit what OSI did...this server is supposed to be "history perfected". I'm sure that it was never the intent of the original developers to let someone be killed in their own locked home by a douchebag. If it was their intent... then it wouldn't only happen on certain squares near walls it would be the one square adjacent to the window LOS. Like other things that were nonsensical about the UO of old this should be changed...its just dumb!

And to those of you that do it... fuck you!