Limiting Bonded Pet Deaths

The overpower feeds into it because the compromise of stat loss doesnt seem like it would come into play too often because trained dragons and mare steamroll high level monsters. Also even though I watched ebola's video I'm not sure how one kills a tamer past two dragons and a mare unless they just stand there and wait to die like the tamers in his video did. How do you get a spell off when you have 4 spell sources coming at you? If you LOS that gives him time to heal. If you paralyze each pet you dont have enough mana to kill, likewise with paralyze field.

Would love to go on a tamer killing tour and see how its done short of mass gank.

First of all, I'm not sure why you are making this personal after I recently spent time in the game helping you out. Setting that aside, now seems like a good time for me to remind you that taming is not an exclusive club -- you too can enjoy the "massive advantage" that I am apparently trying to hoard for myself!

As for the risk element, I spent an entire day arguing that aspect of the issue in another thread. In this thread, I am presenting my defense to the argument that tamers are too powerful and should be nerfed.

Pets walk slowly so it is easy to avoid their melee. No need to paralyze. They are also relatively slow to cast offensive spells and are usually out of mana if the PK strikes at the right time. The only time that PKs are at a disadvantage to a tamer is when the tamer and his pets happen to stack enough offensive spells to take the PK down. Most of the time, the PK's profile (resistance to magic or more effective offensive spells), combined with the element of surprise, will lead to an advantage, 1 on 1.

This thread makes me want to go kill a lion.

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I didnt realize it was you when I wrote the post. I apologize for my tone and not just because its you.

As for joining the club, the whole reason I'm playing this game is because I only see accomplishments as meaningful when you have something to lose in pursuit of them. I liked old UO because there were setbacks. I lose interest when I have everything and there is nothing left to strive for.

One day a long time ago I returned to some iteration of UO and in my first couple days someone handed me a check for 100,000 and at first I was excited but the transition to the complacent middle class was so sudden it ended up robbing me of the bootstraps adventure I enjoyed so much initially, when I thought players with the famed titles were gods, and making it back to town after a successful mining trip was exhilirating.

I don't understand people that instantly rush to the end and don't want any real challenge along the way, but thats just my thing.

OK the best fix there is for tamers risk (and OPness .. {read it out loud.. its like penis})

1) Remove all bonding slots above the 1 that all characters get
2) Reward players for bonding slots lost:

1. 20 plat per slot - a bonding slot is around 150k so thats even
2. a comemarative trophy/deco/trammy rare item or something else

3) Increase masks of the wild spawn in the tamer quest so theres still a point to go and see the content which is actually quite fun

1. Add robe of the wild? Gloves of the wild, sandles, etc?
2. Make them drop less then slayers but compairable
3. can even make them not blessable if you want to go that far along the RISK side of things even though the pets would now be murderable

Risk: pets die for good when killed
Benefits:
1) Fewer OP trained up dragons
2) A market for people to sell OP trained dragons
3) Less forum posts about people going OMG DRAGONS ATE MY FARMING SPOT

My thoughts on the matter and why it could just .. you know.. be left alone.
There's nothing OP about a tamer. Its not like only select players can have them. You have 15 char slots. You CAN have 15 tamers. A mining tamer, a tailor tamer, a dex tamer, a pvp tamer, a bard tamer, a bank sitting tamer, a fishing tamer, a taming tamer! GO WILD. Its Ultima Online - you can be any god damn thing you want to be and thats why we play the game SEVENTEEN YEARS LATER!

Nothing is stopping you from having one also.. but as it is... I can't take my tamer to Capture the Flag... i could .. but you PvP mages are OP there. I cant take my tailor to the holloween event.. I can, you'd all have really nice hats but the dexxers would get more rewards then I. And I can't bring my theif anywhere because the guards are OP and i go grey if i even think about looking into your pack. My tailor thinks my smith is OP at smithing and my smith thinks my Dexxer is OP at mining....

TL/DR version - Get rid of bonds if theres really a problem... But mostly there is no problem so STOP CRYING and find a way to play that you enjoy.. ITS ULTIMA

Geo, no problem. The good news, as I wrote above, is that the staff here have done a great job of adding "end-game" / "boss level" content that is challenging even for tamers. I basically don't farm on tamers for the reasons you describe -- the only real challenges are balrons, shadow wyrms, and ancient wyrms, and even those get repetitive and old. But AMIBs, champ spawns, the zookeeper quest, and hopefully the new level 7 treasure maps are a real challenge even for tamers. That is why I am not in favor of nerfing tamers at this point -- there is enjoyable content despite (and that perhaps depends on) the current power imbalance.

Ok. So back to the constructive criticism part. Yes, the events are a good example of times when things are not heavily favored towards a tamer in regards to PvM, and I agree that PvP is not as well.

I don't agree with the 'stop whining and make a tamer' mentality. There are different parts to this game that each part of the population enjoy. Although every part will never be fully balanced, nor should it, in one area (PvM), the balance is highly out of whack. So that either means bringing in the nerf bat, which isn't what I suggested, or adding more risk, which is.

So what are the ways everyone would want to see it changed? Chris has made it clear he's open to suggestions, so let's get a clear set of things the population would want, in order to help "perfect" this area of the server. Before the DDoS attacks, was the 2.5% enough risk, should it be 5%, 10%, no bonding at all, or something else entirely? What is suitable risk for a tamer?

Why is it out of wack? PvM - the best SOLOABLE class is a pet class ... PvP - mages dominate. Can't bring a axer/bowman to a duel.. the mage will wipe the floor with you. But I can have both of those things. I just don't get it. A dexxer is better at getting ore then a miner is for godsakes. Why arn't miners everywhere screaming? Because they can make dexxers.....

I can take freshly tamed dragons to the Dark One, The Beholder, or the Deseased Blood and farm bosses. Take away my bonding and I still have less risk then you and your blood drinker vanq +25 axe so what does it matter?

And that is why my first part of my post was legit. Get rid of bonding because stat on a dragon isn't risk. Retraining it if your so inclined is not equal to farming/buying a new amazing slayer. It never will be. Hell mares only spawn 5 a day and EVERYONE has 9 of em.

I dont get how its ok that i need carto/lp to make a tHunter and thats ok.. but to solo bosses making a tamer is considered OP. Each class has its thing. Tamers open world PvM/farming at the highest level. Don't bond my drags - ill go get more and keep doing it.

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I'd also strongly consider simply adding more reward for killing another players dragons/mares. This can be done in a way that players won't be able to farm there own bonded pets for profit.

There would, therefore, be more incentive to kill tamers, increasing their risk, but this would be a subtly implemented risk increase that no one would complain about because it is not a direct nerf or inconvenience to any tamers.

Isnt Increasing risk, reward, and player interaction in one change better than just increasing risk and discouraging risky behavior?

Should all player classes be equal? No.

*moves on*

The one thing I would like to see added is much increased stable fees!

I used to work as a stable girl and I would not fancy mucking out a Dragon or a raging grizzly!


Ps. Tamers have always been the best PVM class and always will be.
I think the system here is almost faultless.
I could understand people being upset if a tamer had 15 or 20 control slots as that would be OP but 8 seems like a good compromise.

self deleted - starting an argument then leaving is lame. 12 hour shifts both days this weekend later boys

There is no better incentive to kill a tamer than the fact that they're tamers.
They're extremely easy to kill (if they don't see you coming a mile away) and sometimes have some decent loot.

1. Rush in
2. Blow them up
3. Cut off their head
4. Sling it across the dungeon against a wall
5. Scream, "Aaaa-loo-loo-loo-loo-loo-loo-loo-loo-loo!"


If anything, we should be helping to get more players to join and make one because...

Worst suggestion I've ever heard on UOR.

Why are pets bonded? Stupid...

Blessed items and bonds are lame...

If you want to have an advantage, you should have to do so at the equivilent risk. Bonded and blessed items ruin everything, destroy the economy, and make me a super, super, sad panda..

When every tamer in the game gets their animals together, nobody will ever need to tame a dragon again...

Thats just wrong...

This whole convo is happening because of "bonds".

Kill the bonds... Problem solved.

At least... Make the bonds only last 1 death and then you have to rebond. Still stupid... But better.

Just give me a quiver so I can at least attempt to use a heavy x bow….Fighting magic casters that can heal make it basically use less..

Stop letting pets be bonded…. Problem solved. Now my tamer will risk her dragons while my dexxers risk losing the weapons I have that cost well over 100k..Each.

As Curly Sue stated above..I posted before reading another 34596076534 page thread on this issue.

This does seem to be the heart of the argument. I don't imagine bonding will be ever be removed but I like your suggestion about having to new it after a death.