Dost thou wish to enter the moongate?

I have to agree with Blaise on this one, moongates far predate Ultima Online. The first ever Ultima game I played, and I know this will date me a little, was on Nintendo entertainment system in 1983 and was called Ultima Exodus. Incidentally this was also the first Ultima game produced by OSI. Moongates, and figuring out how to use them based on the phases of the moon were essential to completing that particular game.

Moongates are working the only way I remember them working...granted that was many years ago so many memories are naturally misted over. "History Perfected"....

I don't see a need to change the way they are functioning. Understanding moon phases and all that jazz is great for the few who might actually take the time to do so, but the vast majority of players arent going to bother. How often do I even use moongates? Not that often I suppose, but newer players coming to the shard might, and probably do. I see no need to make anything more "difficult" on them, as I am greatly enjoying watching the player base rise. Do I feel not having a gump open to choose which cities moongate to go to would lead a new player away? No, but it's an easy, harm free function that could potentially help encourage them to stay.

That's where you're missing the boat. It harms the tried and true function of moongates working on moon phases. Sure, Jupiter is going to be the only one actually checking the phases to know where he's going. The rest of us, can just rest assured that when we hit the gate 1s after the person we're chasing, chances are high we end up in the same place.

As great as that would be when chasing...a criminal I guess, that same function could be used to grief someone as I'm seeing it. Wouldn't it be just as easy to set up a gank fest on the other side of the moongate KNOWING that whoever is chasing said criminal is going to follow them out the other end?

Really...I see nothing wrong with the way its working. The only time I'm using moongates on the regular is when we are out faction fighting and are hitting Yew/Glow/Brit. Which makes me wonder now that I'm thinking of it...how would this effect sigil running?

It would add complexity to it wherein you'll want to run sigils according to the moon phases. Yes, it definitely suits a potential gank but moongates are also guard zones.

Haha. I'm a household name!

I vote that all moongates should point to Paws!

to a fault I am able to understand both sides of these arguments and thus I would never be able to consign my self to one side or the other.

From a strictly theoretical point, making public moongates the only viable means of mass transit is truly the only non-trammel solution. If you only look at an argument with the thought of what you are losing, you will never see what could have been.

however, since the precedence has already been set long before UO:R and free shards in general, following this line of thought would alienate as opposed to attract new players.

In regards to the public mongates, I disagree with my friend Mobo on the premise that you can't miss something you never knew you didn't have.
New players either a) are returning players who are familiar with the original function or b)) completely new to UO and don't even know what a moongate is until you show them. Thus they wouldn't miss the town gump

J. Greystone.

Meh. My entire family fall under the category of "returning players" who remember public moongates as functioning the way they do now. We personally hated the way they functioned on SA. I suppose on this shard I'm much "better off" so I wouldn't necessarily care now, but as a newer player I would personally hate it. If it was an optional feature (as in I would turn it on during one of your adventures, then immediately turn it off when we were done lol) then sure!

Maybe someone could explain the moon cycles to me and convert me here buy...in 1yr+ of playing here this is the first time I've seen anyone complain about the way they are working =\

This is one of the better guides I've seen, along with some tricks for utilizing the gates effectively under the moon phase system:

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/s ... clnk&gl=us

Unfortunately, the actual page itself is no longer in existence, I had to use a cached version. Its definitely a more complex system than what exists now; but its a logical system, fits in with the canon of the Ultima universe, and as you yourself mentioned -- largely negated in most situations because most people utilize more direct routes to travel (IE, player gates, recalls, etc).

I'm indifferent. I was glad when I came here and saw the menu instead of having to guess (or calculate) phases, but as time has gone on, I've realized that like other posters in this thread that I actually enjoyed the aspect of the game. It was one more item to give an Ultima flavor to the game.

In my first post, I said....Regardless of when they showed up in UO.... So if they "far predated UO" or some silly stuff like that...so be it.

The simple fact is, Moongates and Recall/Gate remove the risk and danger from the game.

If you disagree, then I guess you have never been on the receiving end of a PK. When I get attacked by a PK, I have the ability to recall away. That act just removed the risk and danger from the game.

It's amazing how the people that yell "don't make this place into Trammel" the most don't REALLY want that when it will take away a convenience.

How is that "amazing"? 99% of the times I cast the Recall spell, it has nothing to do with escaping danger. A balance must be struck between keeping convenience and removing danger, and I think most sane people realize that these spells are well on the side of convenience.

This is why I don't agree with Blaise's rationale for removing the moongate selection option. 99% of the time someone uses a moongate selection box, it's for convenience, not to escape a pursuer. If you want the moon phases thing for flavor, fine. But just because sometimes when you attack someone near a moongate, they decide to run through it and you only have a 1/7 chance of guessing right on the first try, doesn't necessitate the removal of the feature IMO. But, it's a judgment call.

I have no problem with removing the "out of town" gate gump and I would love to see a return of the original moongate functionality.

.

Hold on, hold on. When did this become a discussion about recall? Recall is a spell that has been present since the early days of UO, so removing it would be like removing halberds, mounts or mining.

RE: Public moongates - Yes, the original functionality would be cool to have, but is not essential. I remember just clicking the moongate like a man possessed until I got to my destination. Sometimes it took me seconds, sometimes minutes, but it always got the job done...plus I was in guard zone all the time. In short, having the gump to choose towns is cool although not ideal, does it "break" the game by trammelizing it? I don't think so.

RE: Personal moongates from town to out of town - I don't remember how it was in era, but I think the gump is a bit of overkill. Removing it would be "perfecting" the game further, if not....oh, well.

If a suggestion thread has reached two pages or more, chances are likely that conversation has devolved into a trammel circlejerk relating no where near the original post.

This. It's not just about chasing people through gates, but the overall feel of the game really. Recall isn't Trammelization because it can be disrupted. It's things that cannot be countered and have no risk at all that are fitting the bill. Even our Trammie masks and sandals have a flare of Feluccia because they can and do take damage.

I would have to disagree with Dalavar's assumed percentage of use there. I'd go so far as to say MOST of the use of moongates is actually for the footchase or just new players getting around. The vast majority of travel never comes close to moongates because the first thing people do here is get runes and Recall, for the most part.

Would you feel better if I said "comical" instead of "amazing"?

Back to topic (instead of brining recall/gate into the discussion).

Moongates remove risk and danger from the game while providing convenience, that's a given. Anyone that is truely against removing risk and danger from the game (i.e. trammelizing it), should be against moongates regardless of the convenience they provide. If you give an inch with this, what will come next?

And AGAIN....the topic isn't whether moongates have existed since the beginning of UO....or lore...or what have you.

My stance on the issue is....leave moongates as they are. The reason I'm arguing this is because it sometimes annoys me when people cry "Don't Trammelize it!", yet they will defend issues like this. For instance, when I made the suggestion that after a player to player trade, items could not be stolen for a very short period of time (15 seconds or so), I was told that would be trammel type thing to implement (that wasn't verbatim). So, for the topic at hand...moongates....why would they not think the same thing?

The issue is not MOONgates, as much as the gump you get when jumping a player casted gate that will take you out of town. Blaise derailed it in the 3rd post! Although, now that you bring it up, they are called MOONgates for a reason...

Just stop with the unrelated straw man arguments, please.

Its simple -- you were suggesting a mechanic that never existed anywhere, at any time, within the Ultima universe -- that gives people a 15 second free ride. That is *NOT* the same thing as a travel system to make the use of a massive map much less cumbersome, and trying to imply that they are even slightly related is absurd.

I get what you are trying to say with 'removal of danger' -- however, its an absolute joke that you think removing recall, gate travel, and public gates would HELP the shard, instead of HURT it.. which it undoubtedly would. I know that if I were to join a UO shard, and I was told after joining and establishing myself that *ALL* forms of rapid travel were gone, the next step would be me dropping all my possessions and closing my accounts -- and I doubt I'm alone in this. What you're suggesting would not 'up the danger' -- it would entirely vacate the world of population. If threat of danger to you is an empty world where you have to run everywhere, then by all means continue advocating for this.

My previous position on the actual topic at hand stands.

My bad for the derailment. As said, I would be in favor of removing the warning gump when gating out of Guard Zones, if we also de-Trammelized the static Moongates by reverting them to their proper function according to the moon phases.
If one happens before the other, I won't be upset about it but if we're going with the 'let's get tough cookies about our gates' then by all means, both should be implemented.

I agree that it would hurt the shard, and I never said it would help it. Most things that "trammelize" a shard "help" it. (if you define help as in bringing more people to the server) But...those things that "help" the shard tend to make the veterans unhappy because with more people comes more people wanting something for nothing, i.e. no risk. You have to balance that out. But...like i've said from the start...if you are one of those "Don't Trammelize This Server!" types of people....I would expect you to hold to your convictions and fight this.

As far as the original topic of the gump, 6 of 1 half dozen of the other....does it really matter if it's there or not?