Regarding these ultra-pro PK discussions

My intent is not to insult, and I still believe I have not. I do not proof read my posts so the context might be slightly off. I believe I said something to the fact of I assume you blah blah, however, I digress. Basically, get over it and get back on topic.

My arguments can be taken seriously by anyone with an open mind. I am just pointing out flaws in the current system and providing solutions to those flaws.

Yes siege had a 1 character limit. It was quite glorious :lol: . Gave real meaning to crafters and the community.

This is a game, not real life. So the Zodiac killer reference is silly. We are talking about a lawless land outside of the guards. Punishment should be enacted by the players, not some lazy "system" to keep them in check. Think of the wild west, anything goes. Its pretty much how Ultima Online started, a wild west of sorts. Then after some time, it degraded as people complained about being killed and stolen from. Enter stat loss, thieves guild, and then trammel.

I think of it as you are a criminal because the system of Good/Evil mimics real life but there are no police and we can't 'capture' you, so killing you to enact punishment is the only option.
If you can just resurrect with 0 detriment, then there is no point in fighting/killing you. We might as well all just continue to Recall macro out and lol at your complaints about people not being sitting ducks.

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I disagree that anything has broken down. I think its your perspective that is blinding you. However, it is the "authors" job to get his point across to his audience. Ill take responsibility for that. However, I suggest reading it all before giving me constructive criticism.

I think you misunderstand my posts. At least the later ones. I was just pointing out that communities CAN police themselves. Also, I am not sure how siege mechanics makes for a difference in stat loss. Are you getting at that because you have one character, stat loss effects them MUCH more? Maybe explain your position better because I am interested. Also, are you saying that siege didnt have stat loss?

I understand the point of stat loss. My earlier posts suggest something all together different that effects pks much worse, while keeping people playing. Have you read my earlier posts? It sounds like you may have just skimmed over what I wrote, and missed their point. I dont blame you, they were quite long. Saying, "be a better pk" is not a suitable argument in itself. People die, shit happens. In that case, you could also make the argument, dont get killed by a pk, be a better player. Overall, its silly. Pks are a playstyle no different than any others. If you want gank squads to end, stat loss is not going to curb that, period. On top of that, thieves "rob" people of their time almost, if not worse than pks. Last time I checked they dont have stat loss.

Punishing playstyles for being annoying is quite useless. You will end up with a trammel like server, or a pk paradise that is reduced to a ghost shard. In the end, its how the shard wants to proceed. Do they want a ton of tamers/bards farming tons of gold with no gold sink crippling the economy, or do they want pks overwhelming farming spots crippling the economy? A balance is needed because even a 50% stat loss wont stop players from doing the latter.

I have already made my argument, and am happy with what I came up with. My whole point for my posts was a fresh look at the situation. Im not "pushing" for changes, I am just chatting ideas up. I find it fun to talk about ways it could have been.

EDIT, I didnt notice you last comment about consensual pvp. PKing is NOT about consensual pvp. Its about killing the player at all costs. The argument that there are other outlets of pvp is completely null and void. They are two different ways to go about killing other people. Some people enjoy fighting in guilds, in factions, dueling for that matter. Pking is another world entirely, and I think that's where your perspective and attitude towards PKs makes it hard for you to make a compelling argument and understand their playstyle.
Just because you disagree with the way the way they play doesn't means they should be "punished" for it. The only reason they were punished to begin with was because people COMPLAINED. They got out of hand and hurt the community. So add stat loss.

Adding ways to keep them from destroying the community while keeping the play style viable without massive marcoing is a step in the right direction. When you can roll 4 or 5 pks, and just macro off counts, or skills back up, simply mean the system is broken. Most pks dont give a crap about stat because its so easy to get around it.

Personally I havent seen stat loss affect any good PKer on this server.

Learn from them instead of making wholesale changes just because the status quo doesnt suit you.

It seems as you have not read the thread nor my posts. I suggest doing so before adding a blanket statement that is borderline useless to this thread.

Again I do not main a pk nor plan to here. I just suggested these ideas off the top of my head due to the complaining about "ultra pro pk lovers". Also, if you read what I was getting at, I aim for balance, not a one for all pks. It has nothing to do with "effecting a good pk". One could say the status quo suits you, so in essence, do nothing about it.

Next time if you wish to add to the discussion please read the topic at hand before blinding stating something silly. I do understand your opinion of not "seeing" stat loss effect "a good pk". If you read up a few posts you could see how your comment doesn't really refute a point to my argument. Maybe you missed the edit.

i know every player that likes playing a pk as a main character has a farmer to support it, and none of them are the ones saying- OOOO there's enough PK's my farmer dies all the time wah wah wahhhhh.

motive says it all. the PK's want to play their play style, on a free shard, without wasting weeks of real life hours just to play in the world, and take all the risk of possibly dying in a matter of hours to waste more weeks.


people that want trammel and don't want to die, but want to think they are great players adding to the UO experience, as long as they don't die and lose .000001% of the loot in a week to a pk keep coming up with bullshit excuses to why stat loss should be implemented.

uo mimics real life, they had stat loss in medieval europe? get real.

No they died and never came back.

Nice, we can have everyone gather and watch a pk get beheaded and it deletes the character, after a fair trial and some time spent at Yew prison.

I know this is an old thread, but I just gotta comment on this...

Mid-evil Europe, if you were a murder, did you have stat loss upon death. Lets see, whats the strength of a dead man, how dexterous is a dead man, how inelegant is a dead man. Think about it, and you must be a dexxer, cause with a post like this, you most definitely have a low Int.

Agreed, Stat-PKs should be deleted on death.

Done and done.

It took me awhile to realize how old this thread was. I guess it was brought back from the dead.

It really takes me back, though. I was a member of a Lum the Mad community when they were still on Lumthemad.net.
I believe the Arcadian Del Sol that hangs out in IRC was a writer there, too.

This shit is so awful it gave me cancer

this post trailed abit of from the subject i was planning to go. but in generel i want a system where there is a prober balance between crime and punishment(both in uo and real life)
im not saying I WANT THIS, or THIS IS UNFAIR, rather, this is how i see the current system.

the current system:
as i understand it up to 20% stat loss(stat/skill?) with 5+ short term counts, wich takes 4 hours to decay.
that to me say you can make 3 pks a day for free, granted you have your pk standing macroing short terms away.
you can still "take" from the next day or weeks, so how long till you get killer, or how greedy you get with kills, means how long in to the furter you are "spending" your 3 "free" kills a day.. yes 3 kills is fast if you kill half-atended miners..
but if you pick fights with evenly matched players, you can win 3 matches, you start, and unlimeted they start..
all this still while bieng able to res without ristrictions, apart from bieng red, and making sure to be logged on 24/7 with your pk..

that is how i would do it, to utilize/abuse the current system..
but if you tale the other path, of taking the easy kill, and not attend your short terms.. it will take you along time to get killed but when you are killed you are dead so much longer, unless you have a build that is not that expensive to train up, ie dexxer, then you could just take the stat loss and sit re-macroing your stats up in your house and not get kills for some time at the same time as you are loosing short time kills.
as im not sure if its Stats or skill, or both you loose, i might be all wrong in my training assumption.
weaher its camping and playing music, or sparing and casting spells, does not matter so much, training takes time

well to the "is it fair?"
the system is clealy in place to limet pks, or atleast take them out of game for a time after their death..
and changing the decay time for the kills, would change the amount of kills a pk can safely make each day, or how long time he cant kill after his death.. a point is how much Play-time has his play style costed the "victems", and that would depend on a case to case.
where i would take in to account how much time is put in to items lost, and how long time it would take to get back to the same level..
ie.
1. a naked recall miner=1 node of ore, (recall regs + rune, might some tools) + the inconviniece of getting the miner back to the bank, less then 4 hours i would say
2. noop at brit gy = noob gear + loot, and the time to res retrive corps or re get the items lost

where killing a geared mage would be much closer to the 4 hours, also situations could change how much time you take, in the middle of a champion spawn, killing the right person at the right time can mean alot of problems for the group, only giving 1 kill count. and fustrating alot of players.

On a ending note, i remember some where in the tread, someone talked about paying (gp) to remove a kill counts.
if that should be there it should only be able to be done while you are alive.
the pricing should be something like X*[short terms]*[Longterms], where X should be dobbelt (permanent?) if you have killed between using this service last. also X should be set on some fair level, it dont have to be to high it will rise fast enough..
this way it would be a money sink, and at the same time a possibility for a killer to redeem him self... in a very cotholic way
yes it would still be abuseble but the curve would be very steep

my 2 rupees

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hurt me daddy

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Has it really come to this @One ? Have you posted in and/or liked every current thread that you must dig up four-year old threads and post your much needed opinions?