Runic weapons that exist where no hammer does

If you disagree come show me how your pvper is going to beat my stun tamer with my pets. You won't last one minute jackass. No one is denying how powerful the build is, what walisin is doing is making this long winded debate about an issue he had absolutely zero in game experience with, and therefore was incorrect in every assumption he made.

My own experiences with the stun tamer are that it is fairly effective with just a nightmare (though prone to a lot of variance based on the nightmare's spells and melee swings/misses), and no-way-I'm-going-near-that if accompanied by two dragons/wyrms too.

You'd have to be some kind of idiot to let someone stun you with two wryms and a mare in tow. It's not something that any pvper worth his salt should be worried about, if you're walking that close to the tamer ball you're doing it wrong.
We did bail when you guys pulled your wyrms out. As I said, despite claims that only one of you are running pvp tamers, a few of you pulled pets out of your stables and huddled together once you realized that you were going to be killed if you didn't.

We figured you guys didn't want to fight and just felt like banksitting, so we decide to oblige you and leave.

But they are. I'm not going to tell you why because I don't want you guys killing me with my own insight, but I can think of at least two major problems with the way you're playing your characters off the top of my head. If I were to create a pvp tamer, it would be about twice as deadly as what you're running because I'm capable of rationally thinking about templates and pvp.

Walisin, I touched on every point corruption did, before he did it. You just weren't listening. I already pointed out that you cannot run lower tame/lore (an incorrect assumption you made about obvious mechanical flaws with this server based on your past server experiences), and still have full control over pets. You know what? You're an idiot. Go back and re-read what i said previously. I covered practically every point as I did most recently, just not in as much detail. It's funny, because you've detracted from the initial debate we were having about stun tamers, to a more focused attack at me simply because you don't have a valid stance anymore. Ironically, I specifically said that was the reason I didn't want to waste my time because it wouldn't be as if either one of us would agree with the other, in which case you said you would granted I "coherently" presented a logical argument. The moment that I put it into 3rd grade format for you, you're only response is that i'm piggybacking what corruption said, when in reality I was recovering what I was initially saying from the get go.

Napo, what the f***k man? When did I say I was the only one using a stun tamer? This entire argument i've been trying to point out is that they ARE a thing (meaning more than one person runs the build), which walisin incorrectly assumed that IF they were then there was an obvious mechanical flaw with how control works; which I began to argue that he was incorrect. And no, we didn't "realize" we were going to be killed. Where do you come up with these falacies man? Do you just say whatever makes you feel good? "We figured you guys didn't to fight and felt like banksitting." Again, I don't even know what to say.

Napo, If at any point you want to test your grain of salt against me in any form of pvp, PLEASE come show me. I will bet everything in my bank accounts you cannot stand toe to toe with me any any form of pvp. Please take that bet.

Again, if you read my previous posts I said I made the character for base raids when opposing factions are sigil guarding. That was the primary reason. So we can run into your base with wyrms while you're congregated in one area and let our wyrms loose on you and stun if we have to. Other than that, I don't use the character.

FYI, I was the only one who pulled out wyrms - not both of us. And we didn't "huddle" together (coming from the group that huddled next to hired faction mages that were set up as a turret, as well as faction explosion traps leaving the town when you outnumbered us despite your horribly incorrect version of how many people we had when in reality it was SL who had the numbers?), I pulled my wyrms, loaded stun and a mana drain to hit the first factioner that I ran into, and made a B line in your direction while my other two teammates were on the other side of the smith shop as I ran down from stables. The second my wyrms showed up on screen y'all vanished (not that i blame you). The more I listen to your perceived accounts of how battles went down, the less I can take anything you say seriously. You've adamantly made multiple incorrect recounts of several battles that have taken place over the last month; mainly in IRC. It makes it even more humorous when you say, "I'm capable of rationally thinking about templates and pvp." Gtfo

You shouldn't let me get under your skin so badly.
I was just reassuring Walisin that while pvp tamers are a thing here, they aren't the server ruining thing that he's worried about them being. We've engaged your tamers a few times and come out on top without much trouble.
You should be agreeing with me, it would be a shame to see a prospective pvper run off the server by his perception of a serious problem that doesn't actually exist.

Oh but I was being an ass with that banksitting comment, yes.

You say that, but do you even know the names of the characters I pvp on?
I can and have fought you to a standstill. You're difficult to kill but it's not like you made any progress down my health bar either.

If you'd like to prove your superiority though, please feel free to find me on the field. We've been bored with no one to fight recently.
At least don't run Walisin off, maybe he'll be willing to fight.

Napo, do you know who my chars are? I have never died on Mandevu in a pvp battle. Ever. That would mean my mare would die, which it hasn't. So to say you 'came out on top' is idiotic. We fought you in moonglow and once at ice. Glow resulted in y'all bailing and ice resulted in y'all leaving mes and one other to die alone. Get your shit straight.

You have never fought me 1v1 on the field unless you are that retard eval/fencer i ran into ONE time near brit moongate in which you literally offscreened EVERY single time i started an attack to heal. Every time. If that was not you, then no, you haven't fought me. Actually, I have not died to ANYONE on the field 1v1. If you sit here and start claiming that you are officially completely delusional.

I'm semi hesitant to jump in on this, but I will say this. The fight in moonglow where you guys brought your tamers out hatecrime did get a successful stun off on me hopped off his mare and started dumping on me with yourself(mandevu) dumping on me and I lived pretty handily with a single gheal from napo. You guys did end up killing me a bit later, but it was by a simple sync dump, no mares or wyrms involved.

The other two times hatecrime has tried to use his stun tamer that I'm aware of have both ended up with him dying.

I just personally feel you guys are quite a bit more dangerous when you're on your regular pvpers.

^ This is accurate. Napo, you're buddy has much better recollection skills.

Koncept, yes, i remember hate using his mare, but his mare is shit and was completely untrained. So, can't really measure that up to the worth of a stun tamer. Now, if hate has used his stun tamer on different occasions and died, I am completely unaware of that and cannot speak on his account for that. So napo, what you are more than likely referring to as far as "coming out on top" against "our" stun tamers...is incorrect. Maybe you ran into someone elses, but the two encounters i've ever had using Mandevu, has never resulted in us "losing" or me "dying."

Like i've said though. It was never intended for me to use the build for open field fighting. It was specifically designed for base raiding. The entire issue that was initially argued was whether they were a "thing." Which there are more than just us two that have them, and they definitely can be extremely powerful if used properly in the given circumstances, but the original point I was making was that there is not an imbalance in the control mechanisms of animal control.

Ice also resulted in several of your reds dying in deep stat, if I recall.
Anyway, it's rather tiresome to go through a complete account of every time we've fought and giving excuses as to why it wasn't a loss, isn't it?
My point is that while Walisin is worried about the server being dominated by pvp tamers, it's not really like that and he shouldn't worry. The only thing you guys have dominated lately is champ spawns.

Also it's rather humorous that you're trying to talk shit at me without even knowing who I am.
Your claim was that I would be completely unable to even stand toe to toe with you, and that's false. Now you're going neener neener you can't kill me, which is a different claim entirely. I don't die 1v1 either, it's not terribly difficult to keep yourself alive.

Your ego is getting in the way a bit here.
I never claimed that I have killed your tamer one on one or whatever, subjugated your lands and heard the lamentations of your women and all that.

Just that your pvp tamers aren't ruining the server and we've been generally able to accomplish our goals even though you are running those templates. We've defended bases against them, raided your bases with wyrms in them, and so on.
All that aside, I care about establishing to a player like Walisin that pvp tamers aren't ruining the server, you seem more concerned with defending your record on the field and making sure everyone knows that no one has shit on you. I don't care about that too much.

Although there are a few things I disagree with in that, I don't feel like arguing anymore.

My original intent was to point out that animal control is not broken, people do play stun tamers, but they are not OP. Adios

Sans WWs, the build is shit and will never amount to anything without them.


I know, because I am the best.
Oh yeah, I almost forgot, here's where Mandevu got pwnt by me in leet1v1pvp, before he took a surprise 3+ month hiatus:
(on my bard of all characters too, man, that's almost as bad as a pvp tamer)



Welcome back.

Lol Blaise loves that guard whack SS

I'm going to reply to that, not because it is a blatantly false and delusional statement (which I already learned to expect from you), but because you leeching off of other people's intellectual accomplishments (however inconsequential) with an open display of disregard is somewhat irksome.

I'm just going to cover the basics real quick, as that should serve to illustrate how full of shit you are.

Prior to corruption's post, you never alluded to the template's popularity, nor its effectiveness. To the contrary, you only mentioned that you personally had built one and never used it. And while the former invites false conclusions in context (i.e.: you are the only one to have such a template), the latter turned out to a)seemingly be a lie and b)give the false impression you had no way of gauging its performance.

When you are trying to smear feces all over a conditional statement hinging on a template's popularity as an indicator for its effectiveness, establishing how popular and effective it is goes a really long way. This is what corruption did, and what you failed to do in a spectacular fashion, prior to his post.
The entire rest of his argumentation (and yours, after you copied the essentials) relies on this point, which you would probably know if you understood what you have copied.

All the ranting and raving you did up to that point was completely incoherent and besides the point. Which I tried to explain two or three pages ago, but it went straight over your head.
So, please, try to tone down your anger management issues long enough to give credit where credit is due.

Even considering all that, the whole argument is still completely irrelevant - because you are operating under demonstrably false assumptions, trying to prove a point which can't be proven:

If I had wanted to make a definitive statement, I would have made a definitive statement - because I can actually tell the difference. ( <- That was a definitive statement.)

This, is a relative statement..

.. with not just one, but two hints to clue you in.

1. The use of the qualifier "fairly" is a fairly strong indicator for an intentionally non-absolute statement.
2. The adjective "reliable" implicates the possibility of failure or non-compliance.

In other words: The only definitive cause I can see for all this rage and endless bickering, is that you got your panties in a twist and felt like you had to take it out on me.
And while that was amusing, for a time, it's really not contributing much to the community or otherwise productive. So I'm going to do you a favour: I'm going to put you on ignore, and you can make another factually incorrect post full of rants and uninspired insults; and feel like you had somehow won this argument by virtue of having the last word..

To everyone who got lured into reading this exchange and felt like he wasted his time: Apologies, I should have opted out sooner.

Cool story bro

I'm brand new here and I don't know anybody, so it's entirely possible I'm misreading all of this and missing some joke. If I am, I apologize right now. But if I'm not... Jesus Christ. Are you guys serious with this stuff? This is a game. See the Long Story thread. If you don't like X template, don't play it.

Part of the game is mockery of people's templates and tactics. L2play and welcome aboard.

Most of the board bickering is done in the spirit of era accuracy.