So many Jokers and no Batman...

Wow, I made that list? I haven't played him in a long time...

Looks like August, so not too long ago. IIRC based on the location info, I think that was when the orcs were coming through the Ocllo moongate, covering it with Hides, and hitting whoever they could from in there. I think that was the reason it ended up being guarded like the rest of the guardzones shortly thereafter.

@newme Not true Westra! You have admitted to me yourself that you look for newer people who may need help from PKs and go help them out when you can. I assume that includes fighting off a PK or two? Even if it is in the name of peace or helping newer players, you still pass judgement and act on it.

* this sample represents PKs that Dalavar is capable of killing.

Wait...is that an insult to me or to Dalavar?

Zing, zing

Stat loss is a joke.

I am approaching this topic purely theoretically, and I don't expect any immediate changes. I do stand by the comments I made. I think the original game designers quickly learned there is no way to predict how human players will interact with the system content, but you can rely on one constant: humans will inevitably attempt to manipulate the system. That word, manipulate, tends to have negative connotation, but I don't mean it in that sense. I mean it in the sense that you manipulate a screwdriver to be a hammer, (even though that isn't its original design). We may have an endless list of reasons for which we attempt to manipulate an object, but it is our human nature to do so. Some might do it just "see how fast this thing can go" while others surely do it to see if they can profit/gain by using the system in a certain way.

With that in mind, the current "criminal" system is a complete farce which is exacerbated by the 3 accounts rule.

When you design a game you cannot "make" somebody be good or make them be bad. However, you can plan a system that manipulates the human psyche to perform tasks you deem 'good' or you deem 'bad'. You must first define an incentive that is long lasting (doesn't require continued content expansion) and second a system that intentionally delays rewarding of that incentive unless the specific actions are routinely maintained by the player seeking that reward.

We also tend to think that the only rewards are those which A: reward with money or B: reward with advantage over other players. There is also a 3rd type of reward which humans seek for and that is prestige which is exceptionally underutilized in UO.

I think that the Virtue system is a VERY good foundation or template upon which to build a 'hero' or 'honor guard' type of status. The virtue system has a built in 'delay' of reward with the required 3 tiers progression. It also requires routine upkeep of those actions otherwise the person's level 'decays' and they are then no longer qualified to receive the proposed reward.

The template for this is clear, the challenge is finding the correct actions required, the correct reward, and the correct control (e.g. escorting NPC's gives a player compassion, the highest level of compassion allows a player to rez targets with 80% life. If you don't escort an NPC within about 7 days, your compassion decays, and then you can no longer rez targets with 80% life).

Playing a PK, already has it's rewards. Although rather risky, you can be rewarded by taking another player's items. There is also an underlying 'prestige' which a PK can attain by becoming a 'feared' player. this element is not 'built' into the system, but I guarantee it is there. We remember the most talented PK. We hardly remember any 'heroes'. Why? because there was no way to become one and there is no reward system in place to require us to 'keep' a character unsullied.

My solution therefore is simple: A new system is required in order to encourage humans to manipulate and to perform certain 'good deeds' in order to achieve a reward that is sufficiently desirable so as to motivate people to attain it. It is crucial that the reward cannot itself be gamed or 'manipulated' beyond that which it is intended to provide.

I think by far the best system would be a 'pk' activity alerting system which could be used to 'hunt' the pks while they are active. This would serve 2 purposes, 1: It would allow people to become heroes, 2: It would add a secondary but not detrimental consequence for PKing. Do you want to PK? Sure, but just be aware that you might have a group of heroes show up to put you in the dirt.

This system would not guarantee that a PK would be disadvantaged, in some senses PKs could try to 'lure' heroes into a trap (i.e. intentionally tripping the 'pk' alert system and luring a hero to a 5v1 trap).

anyways, if you made it this far, congrats. I think that such a system would both service to provide incentive to do 'good deeds' and promote PvP (hop on your Hero and see if any of your PK adversaries are currently murdering)

If you made it through my last post, then this one might make sense, otherwise, disregard

My first thought of an appropriate reward for a hero which would provide both 'prestige' and 'sufficiently desirable' function would be this:

1. Seal off a portion of the 'Court of Justice' in Yew. Only players who have achieved the max level of the 'hero' class can access this room (Prestige)
2. Have a special 'message' board that gives the current online status of all 'red' players

• a. Current long term and short term murder counts
  b. Current death status (alive or dead?)
  c. Last known kill coordinates
  d. Current bounty on their head

A system to achieve this would be to act as a 'guard' for another player for at least 10 minutes in a dungeon. You can only achieve 'hero' points 5 times per day. During that 10 minutes, the player you are guarding cannot die.

Now, could this proposed system be gamed? Yes. You could just defend your alt for 10 minutes during low peak hours, but it would take you a good deal of time to achieve the top rank, and the end result only gives you access to find PK's currently logged in and only gives you their last 'kill' coordinates. This doesn't guarantee any advantage.

You assume wrong......Usually the pkers are long gone by the time someone asks for help in IRC...I've gated ghosts back to town a few times. And I help them refurnish whatever was taken from them. I've also gone to the location and res. a player now and than. Just because I help someone...doesn't mean I get into a battle royal with pkers.
From my experience with pkers here. Most do the hit and run tactics..they don't hang around for the victims friends to show up.
Instead of assuming an answer which fits your way of thinking, please use your imagination and think of alternate concepts.
If you don't believe me... go on the PVP channel IRC and flat out ask the folks who run pkers how many times I've showed up to fight them. Even ask how many times I've fought in self defense or tried to run off.
My main character is Marjo in game and she's the one I use when go farming.


Westra

I assumed that one would want to be able to act Negatively upon other characters one way or another, otherwise would choose Mechanics that wouldn't allow it. I'll drop it. No offense was intended...

@Jupiter - I am not sure about a Hero class of sorts, but I think you may be unto something with a bounty hunter sort of deal. Players who make it their business to hunt down Murderers can have some better tools to hunt them down with.

Duh, I also forgot to clarify, at the end of the 10 minute guarding period, the protected character says "I honor the" and sacrifices a significant portion of their fame. The more fame that is able to be sacrificed the more "hero points" are awarded.

This would encourage people to take players to places a little more dangerous and not just result in going to despise lvl 1 and sitting for 10 mins.

You just want an excuse to play dungeon chess and then farm your opponent's fame to get Hero Points.

I'm onto you.

I say just soup up the npc AI and have wandering healers, wisps and guards go ballisto when a red gets anywhere near them. Spawn a few badass wandering knights on horseback and have them conduct patrols of overland areas and dungeon entrances from time to time.

Have Lord British pay out for bounties (make it worthwhile), also make it so that to turn in a head one must have so many points in the virtue of Justice in order to be able to obtain a letter of marque from the king. No letter of marque and you simply are not allowed to apply for a bounty hunter's license and must prove your worthiness to the court.

I'm sure there could be a system put in place to collect points in Justice that would make it a PITA for alts to work up the virtue of Justice while trying to buildup a PK notorious enough to accumulate a worthwhile bounty.

Not that the current system is broken or needs any bells and whistles. Just throwing ideas out there.

NOBODY likes a quitter

UOR would greatly benefit if the shard's PvP was based on an epic battle for good and evil.

Just condense factions into good/evil and let both sides wage war for control of Britannia, city by city.

If Evil takes over have there be guillotines and other creepy torture bad guy stuff in the streets etc.

Alternatively you could leave factions to be the drama filled clique filled bs it is now.

There isn't really a lot of drama with factions -- faction activity is effectively a dead thing. While the Shadowlords are frequently blamed for this, I believe that the problem is that the system is in an unfinished, broken state. It was one of those things that was developed during the years that Origin was rushing things through development. On the "official" servers, it was left in a state of perpetual deja vu for many years before it was finally removed and replaced by something different called "Vice vs Virtue" in Publish 86 earlier this year:

http://www.uoguide.com/Factions

WOAH. I like VvV system a lot

I said this before I'll say it again. With a moderatley small population like ours I would recommend that we transform order chaos into a faction system and rid ourselves of the other four. This would promote more PvP and a good vs evil atmosphere in which entire guilds would be more inclined to partake.

Chris should consider removing it completely (like he did with Trammel). Or he should consider doing that.