Spell Damage Delay

If you can demonstrate how to use 100 mana while I cast a 2 second spell, I would LOVE to see that video.


Yes, SOME timers were changed shortly after launch, not all.

My understanding is that all of the damage delay timers (on spells those timers apply to) were changed to 1s from 0.5s.

I don't feel like whether or not all of UO was created around 5x duelling (obv it wasn't) is important. What I do feel is important is that almost everyone this change would affect in any consequential way is in favor of changing the damage delay timers back to 0.5s.

I respect Telamon and believe that the work he does on this server is top-tier, however he said something to me the other day that really bothered me. We were discussing this very subject, when he dropped this bomb:

This is not out of context. He appears to think that the way to fix PvP is to focus on everything except PvP. His frame of mind seems to be that PvPers are incapable of being satisfied. This bothers me.

So even if Blaise joins the PvP community in conviction of the righteousness of this change, will it even be changed? I think we have a problem here that is larger than one simple change in mechanics. For as long as Telamon has this nihilistic view of PvP, we will fail to have meaningful PvP.

This is where I'm coming from as well.

And in response to the harm suggestion- this is really a case in point for me. Harm was a common and useful spell. It's not here because the recovery delay prevents you from casting it quickly enough.

I haven't PvPed in earnest in years and I really prefer dexers, but I'm capable of following the topic and I'll share some opinions on it.

Personally, I've never killed anyone with just magery except when I landed an FS/Exp/EB combo (or Para/Exp/repeat). A few heals/gheal always left me mana drained and running or resorting to weapons. I'm guessing that in any scenario where it would be possible, it would require med-on-the-fly and a fusillade of low-level spells after the initial mana dump? Hope to score a Poison and then just fast cast to interrupt cure/gheal? I ask because I know that I'm speaking from inexperience - I've never tried this - but it seems to me that, whatever you change, you can only end up with the complete opposite of the current situation and nothing in between. If played perfectly it would either be impossible to kill someone using just Magery (as Mes says it is now) or it would be impossible to survive it, right? Either you can get the heal/cure in or you can't. Is one of these outcomes more desirable than the other?

^This seems like an eminently logical analogy to me. I'm not against mage dueling as some appear to be, but it is intentional self-limiting. And while ignoring the katana in your pack during a custom duel is legit, ignoring it in the ensuing discussion really isn't. Because although we can argue on the forums about adjusting cast delay/recovery based on ignoring the katana, in practice - when a red character is running down a bard - everyone will remember the katana. And giving them even faster spells to go along with it might put a real crimp in a lot of players' days, considering the murder record some reds have on the server now, with the current mechanics.

Hence your suggestion.
I'm all for testing this, well before I'm supporting dropping all damage delays to 0.5s.


In regards to Lib's comment, yes, PvPers are insatiable as a whole. I watched this for five straight years on the Call of Duty forums. Literally every single thing that was done, was balked at by some and loved by others. There has yet to be a perfectly balanced variant of the franchise and people still wonder why they release 'the same game' every year.

They are splitting hairs here, when it comes to pvp mechanics. The longer, harder and more maturely we all work together on it, the closer we can get to splitting atoms instead.

The goals of this shard are nothing short of monumental. Perfection is the proverbial unicorn. Will we ever get there? I'm relucatant to say yes, but I'm confident we'll get really damn close if we all just stick together and stick to it. Let's find small changes to test, and one at a time, so we can see the outcomes in play and practice before putting our feet down and saying 'this is how it MUST be'.

It's like you didn't even read my post.
I am okay with the current spell damage delay.
What I think needs to be looked at is the cast recovery timer on low level spells.

This won't have any effect on dexers. First of all, you can already chain cast EB here, EB is too high level and too slow a spell to be effected by the slightly longer than usual spell delay timers.
Shorter timers would allow you to cast low level spells back to back, like harm and feeblemind. This would be a boon to 5x dueling, because you at the moment low level spells are too unwieldy at the moment to reliably stop someone from spamming gheal.

As I explained in the post that you apparently did not read, lower level spells aren't really effective against dexers. It's more economical and safe to just ebolt or MB him down. This is because you open yourself up to more interruption by casting more spells, and EB is the best bang for your buck. There's no point in harming a dexer to death.

Knowing I'm not that good at PvP, and yet still finding myself thinking 'wtf do you mean it won't impact dexxers', has me wondering if you're reading your own posts. As has been said, I can GHeal while you ebolt (my dexxer has magery), I can also bandage, pot, mini heal through a 1v1 dump. Low level spells are HIGHLY effective against dexxers when you incorporate poison casts, harms to interrupt, etc. I've had it happen to me, more than enough here. Yes, my timing is terrible but people have been dropping my gheals with harms since Beta. They also seemingly count MY bandage timer to toss poisons literally 1s before my bandage tick, blocking my heal and setting me up for death. This is good timing and good practice on their part, if I'm not timing my cure pots right (if I have any). PS: Mind Blasting shouldn't be very effective against anyone with balanced stats, which my pvp dexxers have.

It sounds like you're describing dumps on bards, more than fights with 7x characters. This is not about making 5x feasible, it is about finding balance across the board. Regardless, if we are both saying 'Yes, let's test reduced recovery delay', then we are arguing the same point and response is moot.

I am all for testing reduced recovery delay and care absolutely nothing for providing a boon to 5x duels which have literally nothing to do with balancing a shard of 7x templates, that I can see.
If you can spell out clearly how making 5x better will provide balance to all templates, I would love to hear it. If reduced recovery delay is potentially it, then let's see it tested! W00t

Is a dexer who uses magery not a mage?
But yes, I am arguing for tighter spell recovery for the sake of spell interruption.
Honestly, stuff like that is harder to time on the field, but I suppose that tighter interruption will probably occasionally effect a gheal spamming dexer on the field.

I don't think this is a bad thing. Interrupting a gheal requires you to either be anticipating it or have good reflexes, and I think these are the sorts of things that ought to be rewarded in combat.

Messing around with low circle cast recovery will have very minimal impact on game balance, aside from the occasional gheal being distrupted.

Technically speaking, faster poison casts are not something I will ever look forward to. On templates that rely more heavily on bandages, I'm just getting tired of thinking I might as well carry a cure keg.

I'd say there's room to evaluate and adjust various spells as time goes on to really fine tune it. One pretty common ideal is that lightning could stand to be faster but I just can't see any blanket assessment or adjustment to say and entire circle or set of circles being safe to jump into.

In any regard, we just have to be patient and wait for changes on test so we can see what's up.

Cheers

^

V