Hopefully I have read that right, if not i blame my bad English! I think the house mechanic will just make this very simple. When you enter a private house, you are considered criminal for the owner/co-owner/friends. Therefore if you spring a trap you would trigger no murder gump. If the tinker is friended, only other owner/co-owner/friends would trigger a murder gump.
Oh, na, that's stupid. The reason this wasn't the case on OSI for so long is because it's exploitative. I give you a box, you give Blaise a box, blaise opens it, you get a murder count, but maybe you didn't even know it was a trap! The only way to handle this is to give a "warning" of some sort when trading a box. OSI handled this with "you cannot trade trapped objects". Which is a perfectly acceptable solution in my opinion. I simply don't understand why anyone would be against the classic T2A style trap boxes. Never once have I died to a trap unless it was intentional, or a macro of mine messed up. And I am quite sure I have handled and been given more trapped boxes than most people. It's completely avoidable and adds a new dynamic to the game.
The risk is they are a skilled player that gets murder counts. Just like a PK that goes out and kills people, they risk statloss (hah yeah right, they macro them off).
In response to One's comments (in underlined bold here) 1) I favor adding traps with or without punishment for the blue PKs who use them. I agree. But I prefer the tinker is punished in the form of murder counts. 2) But because this IS PKing it should be punished. Also agree. 3) Tinkers who sell boxes aren't murderers, people who leave them on the ground to blow unsuspecting others up are. Technically, yeah. 4) So it is the ones who drop the box who should be punished. Who cares if a tinker is red? They don't even have to leave their house to be useful and make money. How could you possibly track this? The last person to handle it gets the count? What if you pick one up, then put it down and open it? Should you give yourself a count? (joking obviously). Suppose I want to buy traps from Peace, then sell them myself. Do I get a count if a customer opens it? It's just not possible in any way that can be enforced. 5) It is disingenuous to pretend these won't be used to trick people into blowing themselves up in both towns and dungeons. I'm in favor of that. Nobody is being disingenuous here. We all know these are being used to trick people. 6) But like all crime this should have consequences for the perpetrator. The gray from looting isn't enough because anyone can try to loot the corpse. I think it's enough. It prevents this from being an issue in-town as a simple "guards" can stop you from being looted. Nobody should be able to open a trade window with a tinker trap. You would need to open a box on the ground, an action that is completely avoidable. 7) Snap Dragon's point about stat-loss being a joke is mostly true and in several other threads I've acknowledged that both short and long-term counts should be tripled in length. I super-agree. I really like to kill people. I never macro murder counts. I kill people, and I play my characters in statloss with real consequences if I die. It's exciting. PK's macroing counts is a complete joke, especially on a server that rewards users for being logged in and idle with 3 accounts. 8) This risk versus reward balance is, in my opinion, the one that will lead to broadest player satisfaction in practice (as opposed to satisfying a small group of merry pranksters to no end while leading to mass headaches among everyone else). For the record I intend to blow people up myself if boxes are fixed. The path to the broadest player satisfaction is the path to trammel. I don't think anyone here wants to be aboard that path, otherwise they would still be playing the official servers, that are up right now as we speak. 9) I don't accept that counting the dropper is exploitative. Who drops boxes they've bought on the ground without opening them anyway? It's not counting the dropper that's exploitative. I think it's fine. I would run a stealth murderer and drop boxes anyway. The "exploitative" part is that there's no way to build a system to count the dropper that can't be exploited. I promise if you count the "dropper" I will use it to give innocent people murder counts. 10) Given my own suspicious, avaricious, and indolent playstyle I actually hope the mostly risk-free t2a system is implemented. What's good for me isn't necessarily good for the community as a whole, and I suspect unaccountable bank bombings may not contribute to new player satisfaction. I can open a box as a new player, not lose much, if anything at all due to being in town. Then learn and never do it again. I think that un-punishable PK's macroing counts are a MUCH bigger boon to new player satisfaction. Especially since it makes "PK hunting" mostly irrelevant. I did A LOT of PK hunting on UOR as you might read in my Tales of Adventure. After a while it gets old, because I can kill the #1 pk on the shard, and he will be back tomorrow PKing again without any loss in stats or much else. There's no reason to PK hunt really. Bounties are a joke, statloss is a joke, the PKs are a joke.
Part I: Tinkers create traps which can be deployed by anyone. So you have to be a tinker to make the trap, but not to deploy it. Well, that's the mechanic with T2A style traps anyway. In UOR, you just had to face the box a certain way and use a key on it, but the result is exactly the same, worked identical to T2A traps but just required an annoying "setup" process first. Part IIA: Double clicking the trap while in one's backpack (not in a sub-container) arms the trap. While in this form anyone trying to snoop their backpack will get blown up, but the player will be able to use his or her backpack normally. No flagging or counts will be given. I definitely disagree here. This is essentially a thief-nerf, preventing you from ever being snooped. Snoop a trapped box in someones backpack = you should blow up imo. But you should feel safe in snooping their main backpack layer, otherwise stealing becomes pointless except for last-object stealing weapons which are basically worthless anyway. Part IIB: If the player dies while the trap is still active in her or his backpack it will automatically trap their corpse, and they will not get flagged nor counted should anyone blow up because they opened their corpse. Again, strongly disagree here. There's a fun meta game that goes on when someone dies. People will snoop everyone. If they don't have much to take, they might help the player instead of risking their reputation looting. It's also ridiculous to think that you should be able to die and have an unlootable corpse without sacraficing one life at least, or requiring a character with Remove Trap skill. It would have big impacts on PVP, PVM, and PK. Much too trammel for my taste. To me, the spirit of UO lies in the ability to take items from others, put items on the ground, loot dead bodies, have persistent houses on the world map. This persistance is what makes it different from the "mmos" now that have essentially no risk, a skill tree, and items are little more than a list in your spreadsheet-like inventory. The downside of this is that if they die with their backpack trapped they may also get blown up trying to loot their own corpse, so players about to die it may find it useful to deactivate the trap if they expect to be able to loot themselves (or have a friend do so). The trap itself, if inactive, could be looted from the player's corpse and used by their killer for his or her own nefarious purposes later on. And they would assume all responsibility. Nobody is going to benefit from looting a trap from a body and using it for nefarious purposes. Let's be honest here, nobody cares about the 15gp the trap is worth. Everyone has a full range of developed characters and can make their own things or obtain it from shops or friends. The added possibility of blowing yourself up on looting your own corpse would likely frustrate new players. It's too confusing of a mechanic for the average bozo to understand, and too much trammel for me to personally agree with. Part IIC: A player can activate a trap within a container, including a corpse, as well. However doing this would subject the person who first activated the trap to flagging, murder counts, and aggression as though they had thrown an explosion potion. Sure, this sounds fine. But how is this any different from my tinkerer making a trap and giving it to another character to use?
Is trammel the broadest satisfaction? I certainly couldn't tolerate it. But you're right, I don't think anyone here wants that. I enjoy the AMiBs but I'd be okay with them having to be opened via a sea gate that other players could also enter in order to ensure ideological purity. Same with the tamer quest. I think the issue of people waiting at the exit could be solved by leaving a gate in place which leads to town. The only pure trammel event (other than the CtFs which I don't do but do support) which I support remaining a pure trammel event is Halloween because that's too damn fun to sacrifice. I wish Easter followed the same pattern. I'm a-okay with the "instanced" events, as long as there remains the possibility of uninvited people entering them. Right now, this is the case, however unlikely. Let's take AMIB's for example. You have a chance to get some rare item. You get one, and it has some monetary value, you keep it or sell it. UOR adds variation to this by allowing you to use the rare item to open an instanced event. Compared to the "stock" system, this is a bonus, I like it. No AMIBs and AMIB's have the same end results, but AMIBs allow some players more fun. This is compounded by it not being TOTALLY safe. But it's better than not having it at all. It also happens rarely enough not to disrupt normal gameplay. If there's an instanced event (automated pvp nonsense on some shards), it can remove people from the actual "non trammel" game world. This is frustrating for me. If these sorts of events happen often, and I can't steal, snoop, or otherwise be a part of the event, then I mine as well not play. "Oh well this instanced event has a monster that you can use stealing skill on" or "CTF events let stealthers steal the flag"... no. That's not the same thing. having the opportunity to use a skill is not the same as allowing the use of a skill. It's a social game, this is a big aspect of it. Thieves don't care about PVM stealing or rares stealing. These "theives" are a totally different class, usually just some farmers alt. I think I may have solved this in my most recent post! I don't really think so. But it's worth talking about. I will have to check out those tales, I look forward to reading them. Just check my signature here. There's many more if you look me or my guild up on other popular uo forums. Your points here about stat-loss and PK hunting are ONE HUNDRED PERCENT on the money. I've talked about this in other threads until I'm blue in the face. I doubt there is much that would shock you at this point but the resistance to changing the murder system held by a very vocal minority borders on the unbelievable. I think the majority of players support lengthening counts. I think PKs should also be forced to match 110% of their own bounties to resurrect. They also shouldn't be able to enter gates while criminally flagged. I doubt anything will happen concerning any of this. I think people really wanted to be amazing PVPers or scary PK's when they played UO originally. They play the free shards because they want to experience that, and be better than they were before, which is entirely possible since much is known about the game now, and utilities like razor, tutorials, and more social gaming help players learn. My guild, cA, jokes about them, calling them leetpvpers, or "redpotsonly". The joke is that they are vocal about being the most hardcore "gamers", and opposed to the idea of trammel. But they want trammel. They are opposed to punishment for playing the game how they enjoy it. They want to PVP and kill people, but not ever stop to work and re-stock characters when they die. They don't want to macro out of statloss punishment for murdering. They want the things they don't like "trammeled". If there was an actual risk for PKing, these players wouldn't be PKing. They simply wouldn't be good enough to do it and maintain profitability, so they would need to die, farm or craft a re-stock, re-macro characters, and they just don't want to be apart of the "whole" world of UO, just the small PVP part. It would reduce the number of PKs on the server, and these guys could play a role in actually fighting real PKs. But that doesn't let them re-live their UO fantasies of being a terrifying PK. Anyway... Does this mean we can expect to see you around this crust of Mondain's Gem in the near future? Perhaps you've been here incognito all along. Your reputation proceeds you, it would be an excellent development. Yeah, I guess perhaps. I logged in for the first time in many years recently. My enjoyment of the game comes from social interaction. I want to help good players, punish bad ones, make funny stories for people to read. I don't like to PVM at all, but if I need 2 million gold to but 50,000 tame chickens for a prank, con, or funny PK attempt, I will put in the work to get it done. Ultimately it comes down to whether the social situation is correct for me to play right now. I don't care about monsters or loot at all, it's all about having a large amount of people and fun mechanics that allow for creativity and not just grinding or riskless competiton. It's hard to tell what the active population is here with the platinum system skewing the numbers, but I plan to run around and check it out, maybe play again.
Tinker traps would function as in t2a except the person who deployed the trap could flag criminal aggressive and could receive murder counts if their trap injured a blue character who was not snooping their pack or their corpse. The difference between that and the tinkers themselves getting counts, I guess, is that the tinker isn't held liable for creating the weapon should they decide to sell it to others. T2A traps actually let the tinkerer put the box on the floor of a house they own (or are friends in) and "build" it there. The resulting trap gives no counts at all. Tinkerers could build traps to sell or whatever without risking their character. Personally, I want the murder counts. I'm still opposed to giving the "giver" a count. It would be impossible to implement in a way that I can't exploit. OSI UO handles this by not allowing you to trade a trapped item, and by allowing trapped items to be detonated by anyone with a simple telekenesis spell. Not to mention, you can just pick up a trapped box and save it until it's safe to open later. It's totally avoidable. 2) A trap will not cause criminal flagging/aggression nor generate murder counts if it is opened within someone's pack or on their corpse (not anyone else's). It also, of course, will not generate criminal flags or murder counts if used upon someone who is gray (such as a trespasser in one's house) or red. Sometimes you have too many exceptions to a mechanic so it's not so simple anymore. This is when new players get confused. Make trap that kills someone = get a count, it's simple to understand the implications of this, and part of why it's such a great mechanic. 3) A trap, once activated, will explode if it is moved (unless it is deactivated first). That way, a trapped item can't be removed from a player's corpse and used by the looter to give the victim counts. This is harsher than what we've all proposed here with standard T2A mechanics. It would kill players for simply moving an item and confuse many. At least with the T2A boxes you could take it and open it later if you can't cast telekensis, etc. If it only applies to boxes on corpses, I think that's introducing too many exceptions, making the mechanic too confusing and putting off players. It's not often the creater himself would get a trap looted from him anyway. 3) Darts would do the least damage but would not damage the owner if deployed in a pack and would be immune to telekinesis. Poison would lesser poison the owner if in his/her pack while afflicting targets with the poison used in their construction and would be immune to telekinesis. Bombs would have a nearly 100% kill rate for targets while doing serious collateral damage if used in someone's backpack and would be telekinetically openable. Too complicated. It's like saying "the mechanic is like X, unless situation Y happens, then it's like Z. But in situations of A or B, result U happens. If it's traded first in situation L with another item P, then result T occurs, etc.." It's too much.
Totally agree with your sentiments about instances (though I feel as though CtF is important to too many people here to cancel) and the state of PK'ing. I find it acceptable that these events are rare-ish. if there was a 24/7 CtF area, some players would be in it 100% of their game time. This isn't UO, this is a server that has several mini games people are playing and segregating the population. If there must be instanced events, keep them on a delay or make them happen during "down times" on the server to encourage logging in. We used to have epic battles with groups of reds on Europa (I was in a blue PKK guild). I wish to could remember it more clearly but it was so long ago and I was rather young. I died far more often than I killed (I was on a swordsman usually), but I did get to taste enemy blood as well. I miss those days sometimes. For those players that just want to login to "UO PVP: the server", and not have to craft, farm, or anything to afford their pvp gear... well, they aren't contributing much to the server anyway. I feel that catering to them is bad for the majority, since at the slightest whim, these players will flee to whatever the latest OMGLEETPVP shard is. What you said about reds is essentially what I've been saying since I've been here (not that long but no longer yesterday either). They claim any additional restrictions on reds would be trammel but deny that the lack of any real consequences for PKs is also a form of Trammel. A more sinister one because it conceals itself as l33t B@d@$$n3$$ (valor). Truth Tripled counts, heat of battle for consensual combatants and a ban on entering gates for active criminals would be good starts, along with making dead murderers match their own bounties to resurrect. I don't see any reason to triple counts. Heat of battle nonsense is annoying, and causes a pause in the game for anyone who even clicks another person. Criminals or "heat of battle" not being allowed in gates is just frustrating. If a criminal goes into a gate, you're more than welcome to follow them. If there's another person there that dispells the gate, well... I think that's totally fair play. Financial cost to res is pointless. Money is pointless. Bounties are never any significant amount because there is 0 incentive for victims to actually "give" a bounty. Most of the time, I find it's the PK themselves that gave themselves a big bounty for "OMGLEETPTP cred". My issue is the ability to macro off counts. If this were resolved, I think actual PVPers would find more enjoyment in playing, the newer players wouldn't be as pestered, and it would generally be more fair. UO was made in a time when nobody had their accounts online idling 24/7, let alone had 3 accounts. Though you could say that many people probably had multiple accounts, especially us here, since it's more likely that our community was more into UO than those who don't play now. But that being said, the murder counts weren't a problem then. I remember once I accidentally went red just after the new karma system went in game and before I, or many others, knew much about the mechanics. I think I was red for weeks, and it was terrible. High population meant I was attacked relentlessly, the character was unplayable unless I wanted to PVP and put myself at risk. There was no incentive to play the character and reduce the counts. now... it's not a problem. I can have 3 accounts (some people may even have more than that), and leave them online 24/7 at basically no cost. If a short term count is 8 hours, that means I can kill 3 people a day on a character. 3 accounts, and I can rack up 9 kills each day. That might not sound like much, but also consider that too many people simply "don't" give counts. Because of OMG LEET PVP cred, they fear their opponent posting "hah you gave a count, newb" in irc, or they don't want to feed the "counts" of a PK who just wants to get the the top rank of the myuo pk lists and bounty boards. Since they are inherently cowardice, these types of PKs will run in large groups too. It's unlikely that they would be able to fight a moderate opponent by themselves and consistently win anyway. So I can't blame them for this, nobody wants to die right? But it means that if a group of 3-4 PKs attacks, some might just be healers, or other characters that are blue are healing the PKs and contribute to the murder without penalty. They aren't PKing all the time. They get together in a group, and make little PK runs to the hotspots on the map. 9 or more is an entirely realistic number for them to stay under each day. Not to mention, they can still play the characters while "waiting" for counts to decay, as there's not a huge population here. I think short term count decay times should be exponential, or on a log formula and linked to long term counts. Let's say I have a new character, and I kill 5 people in a minute. Now I have 5 short and 5 long term counts. I changed my mind, I don't want to be red, or maybe it was an accident, or poor judgement. I wait 8 hours and I am our of statloss, no problem. If I think "okay, this is fun", and kill 1 more person, so I am at 6 short and 6 long, I wait 16 hours, not a big deal. If I kill 3 people that day, then wait 24 hours, I can kill 3 more, nothing happens except I "will be red" for a long time, if this continues. To allow for people who accidentally go red, or go red occasionally to play the game without being punished severaly, I would like to see a change in the decay time of short term counts. Maybe time time it takes short term counts to dacay could increase exponentially based on the number of long terms they have. Something like: If long terms < 6, short term decay = 8 hours. If long term > 5, short term decay = 8 hours + number of long term counts. If you keep on killing after turning red, your long term counts will add up, and it will take longer and longer to macro them down. Obviously this isn't the perfect formula, but I am sure you can see how this might function. Eventually they mine as well delete the character and start a new one instead of waiting so long to res. At most it might cost a hundred K or more to make a pvp character. I can macro a full character with magery in 3-4 days so time isn't a big deal. They risk a hundred K or so when they die. But what do they earn? If you PK farmers at the right time, it's not uncommon to find about 5k gold at a time. Let's say we go with my previous thought that 9 is a reasonable number to pk each day, they might earn 45k/day not counting items, weapons, and armor. Some make more, some can make less, but it's still reasonable to think that a "just okay" pvper can survive a couple days to earn enough money to re-build their character and re-stock should they need to. Having basically no penalty is ridiculous. If these were the case there would be far more challenge in being a real murderer and far more reward in chasing them. Honestly I don't even like stat-loss that much, it's just the best we have so far. They also lose their items, they lose the ability to use that character and risk being attacked by anyone without penalty, they lose the ability to enter towns, they waste 1 character slot. I think that statloss is pretty fair to be honest. One could give the PKs a boost too by guaranteeing them some prey by prohibiting players from recalling or gating into/out of dungeons. The blood would form rivers. If there was a REAL penalty, I am fine with that. But I can also see how it would inconvenience some. I like no mounts and no gate/recall. But I realize most people would find that annoying. It's great for PKs though. I like it because it makes you put your money where your mouth is. If you harass someone in a dungeon and a fight starts, you likely can't change your mind about it. It also prevents people from charging in with explode cast on a horse that moves 1 screen per second killing people before they have a chance to react at all.
Lengthened counts: I'm fine with your count system since it's pretty harsh but to suggest such a thing and then claiming you see "no point" in tripling counts doesn't make sense to me. It limits the amount of short-term counts one can burn off in a day to three, down from 9. Frankly this was a compromise proposal in another thread, I supported (and still do support) harsher measures. Your system seems good to me although probably too complicated. If it were me I'd start penalties from the second count. Okay, maybe not "pointless" but I like a function for short term decay time with long term counts as a variable. This way it's not so terrible for people who just happen to go red, and it's business as usual for people who aren't red at all. As for gate restrictions, you're going to have people opening gates into their houses and banning those following them. This may be 'fair play' but it sucks and as long as it's allowed I doubt anyone's going to do any serious red-hunting with our current population. Why bother hunting them when they can have a bot gate them home on a comm crystal then ban you and call you a wanker from the safety of their porch? Because gate bots malfunction. In my signature see the adventure link. There's a tale called Next Gate Please or something where I find people using a gate bot. I figured out all their gate spots and setup a bot of my own that dispells their incomming gate and creates a new one, to town. I think it's fair play if you're willing to work to get them and it's possible. Making it impossible to gate out of dungeons would be one way to deal with this but as you mentioned, they run in packs. Genocide had an excellent solution, which was that the more players who share a count, the more it would add up to. For example: If Jakob and Matron kill someone, you each get two short-terms and two long-terms. With tripled counts that would be 48 hours of stat-loss, under your system it would be even more. I like that idea. But it does nothing to stop solo PKs from going to newbie dungeons etc. Still an elegant solution. Regarding bounties, I prefer the following: 1) Bounties wouldn't expire, except maybe if the toon turns blue. 2) To resurrect, the murderer or the person resurrecting them would have to pay double the bounty. 3) Those who contributed to the bounty get 1.5x their gold returned, whereas the remaining 50% of the bounty is awarded to the killer. 1.) sure, why not. Bounties are pretty irrelevant though. A few K is meaningless for the most part. 2.) Sure, why not, but this just feels like a harsher penalty. Again the bounties are generally so low it doesn't matter much anyway and I would just pay the fee. 3.) You can't do this at all. it would allow you to create infinite gold. Trying to prevent it from being exploited would make it overly complex. It would confuse, and create possibly many bugs or unintended consequences. People were whining about it being too harsh though. Literally someone said rich players would "grief" PKs by giving them outrageously high bounties, so I proposed a cap of 10,000gp or something on each individual bounty and a total cap of one million. You may not value pixels but most of the other people here do even more than I. I'm sure you know this based upon the rage you've witnessed after you've robbed/conned various people. People like to pretend they've achieved something and symbolically pixels help them do that. Rich players would not do that. If they did, the PK could just kill themseves, take the money, then re-build their character. If a rich player gives a bounty low enough to make that not worth it, then it's not really a meaningful bounty anyway. There's no fixing the bounty system in the land of 3 accounts, 24/7 online time, and easy macroing. It might have meant something when statloss for a GM mage meant possibly months of re-training, but now, it doesn't. I still want to make Fire Island a penal colony but no one else liked that idea. The second? iteration of the IPY shard had Isle of the Avatar (Fire island) set as an area where you could not gate or recall. You had to sail there. Monsters there dropped 2 times the gold, there was other adventures littered around the island. We placed a house there since we started when the server just launched, and it allowed us to make a lot of money. It was a pretty neat idea. The rest of the shard was terrible though.
The person who turned in the head would always get her/his 50% of the bounty, and the people who put the bounty would always get 50% of their bounty back, but they would only get the additional 100% of their bounty of the bountied PK actually paid the fine. My mistake, I left that out. I wouldn't want the system to create gold as prizes for such activity. As for what's exploitable or codeable and what isn't, I'm far from an authority on that. The way I see it the system I proposed doesn't create any gold, just reapportions it. However you would know better than I what kind of developments would produce advantageous glitches for the supra-aware. I murder you, then I murder Jacob. You put 150gp on my head, Jacob, puts 50gp down. Gideon Jura brings me to justice (hah yeah right), anyway, he gets, 100gp, jacob gets 25, and you get 75? But if I don't die, and want to be out of statloss (I'm just letting statloss = 2 kills here for simplicity), I can pay a fee. maybe it's 1.5x my bounty. So I pay 300gp. Now Jacob gets 75gp, and you get 225? Something like that? The problem is that people don't want to give bounties to increase someones total bounty, because often that is what a PK wants for "cred". If they saw a reward from it, maybe that would change, but if the amount is small, it would make no difference really. If the amount was quite large, people would be hesitent to "gamble" and give a bounty at all. Why would I give a 100k bounty for the possibility of getting either 50k or 150k in return. If the PK knows what his bounty is, and who gave it (he does), then he might never pay the fee to ensure I get nothing, or as little as possible. I just see too many problems with this. Exponential counts are cool, but I don't know if I buy that one can "just happen to go red". By the time one is in a position to acquire 5 counts they should know how to say "I wish to consider my sins." If not it's a lesson they're surely learn. You go to wind and hunt dragons with blade spirits. You die, and I show up while your blade spirit is active. I tell my whole guild, we all come give you murder counts. Is that not an "accident" on your part? How about I put a murderer in a spot that only a purple potion can hit in an attempt to get you to attack him. You do it, but there's 50 hidden newbie characters, all blue, hidden under him. Now you have 50 counts? Is that your fault for being dumb and falling for the trick? (we really did this to someone) Have you never accidentally attacked someone? Had a pet go haywire? Lose track of a blade spirit or EV? Set off a purple potion and or fire field and have someone run in to "grief" you? My position has always been that whatever goes for dexxers should go for mages. Most specifically, that restrictions already existing for recall should be extended to gate. I understand that gates can be followed and recall cannot but if that's to be a valid argument then gating should not be permitted from within houses, at least. Even though people would just open the gates from right in front of their houses, I feel as though that's a minimum. It's also worth mentioning that the amount of people who can pull off gate-based trickery of the variety shown by those such as yourself, Blackeye, and perhaps the late Lord Rice as fairly few. Gate also takes longer to cast, exposes where you are gating to. Information is the most important thing in UO. Just because you aren't using it, doesn't mean other's aren't. As mentioned before, there's 1000 ways to trick someone, even those banning and gating from their house. Let's forget that though, and assume that gating and recalling is bad. The alternatives are... the PK's just run. What are you going to do about it? You can't possibly catch someone running on horse. Toss all the purple potions you want, they can heal pot or mini-heal-cast it faster than you can do it and keep up with them. It doesn't really make a difference "how" they escape. True, maybe the amount of players that are creative enough to think through the problem is minimal. But this also impacts other players. Those that want to get away from the PKs, or those that have nothing to do with any of this and it's just an added inconvenience. I like that idea you mentioned about a gate and recall free island. If such a place existed on UOR, be it dungeons, an island, or another sort of territory then I think that would at least partially solve the problem of being unable to catch a red. It was just an interesting thing I remember and had fun with. On UOR I suspect people would just "not go there", or only go if there's a house they can be safe at. PK's included. The unique combination of a still-new server, characters not being min-maxed (yet), and no mounts, made it what it was. It would be good to have no recall or gate, replaced with perhaps a couple of extra moongates, but it won't happen here so the best we can hope for (if we can hope) is for a medium to large recall/gate free PvM area where one can hope to "pin a PK to the wall" so to speak. Those that are going to pin a PK to the wall are minimal. It won't have any impact on the people that are mostly affected by this, newer players, or just the ordinary crafter or PVE person. I like recall and gate. Moongates are annoying. God help is if it's "proper" moongates that change with the waxing and waning of the moon.
