Trading Forum Post

Telamon is too nice - agreed, until he turns that niceness your way and you appreciate the patience he has shown and his willingness to work with folks to build a community here.

SELF POLICING - Does NOT mean you put on a badge and start shooting up the place, its means RESTRAINT

Transparency is ABSOLUTELY necessary in a democracy... this place AINT a democracy - We had a transparent IRC mod once... once... wonder where Darkwing got off to...

NOBODY is perfect, if you are expecting perfection or even 90+% perfection, then you set your sights too high and this world, UOR and IRL will disappoint you.


I call the above "Wisdom by Peace" Other will call it less flattering names... I am cool with either

Has anyone has ever been punished for shill bidding? If it has happened it is extremely rare, which of course is due to the fact that it is in this case virtually impossible to police transactions between friends. Let's use merlin8666 and Earsnot (neither of whom have shill-bidded to my knowledge but I know they're often linked by their detractors). Let's say Snotdog bids on merlin's whatever, attempting to jack up the price.

If it works, it works, everyone wins (except the buyer). If not, maybe Snot pays merlin whatever merlin paid for it or some reasonable value, then sells it himself later and maybe if they're actually friends they even share the next profit.

My point is not to insult Snotdog (whom I like) or merlin (whom I like less but do not hate) here, they're just examples because they're apparently part of a cartel that can do this in such a way that what they're doing isn't even really prohibited. It's a gray area between shill bidding and just smart collusion, if they are even doing it.

The best thing would be if there were a separate bidding interface like eBay. Anyone comments whatever they want, but bids would be recorded in a separate section, cleanly. Just who bid what at what time. That's a lot of work though and maybe money.

People will bid if they want something. Maybe most of the accusations that fly around here are BS. Some certainly aren't. People should have the information and make their own decisions.


@LanDarr you're the one we want to run the trade forum. Seeing as @Basoosh and @Lord Krake aren't around. Then maybe @Pirul or @Deacon. You'd all do better than Darkwing I think.

The problem is, anyone who deserves the job wouldn't want it.

As long as you realize this happens alot. Literally any major transaction will have someone that is friends bid on that auction at some point. We could go through the forums and probably have 33% -50% of major transactions have bids from friends. I can think of so many big item auctions that played out similarly, and im sure there are many connections on the forums i don't know of.

Pushing the narrative over and over that the 'other group' cheats is a problem because when it gets heard over and over people start to wonder if its true. Its to the point where if one IDERP bids in another IDERP thread the whole thing gets turned into shit, with everyone disruptive high-fiving each other, while 33%-50% of other major transactions are playing out similarily.

On the surface, since as long as I've played here, it appears that 99.9% of the drama comes from a very loud minority group of conspiracy theorists that can't give anything a rest or restrain themselves from immediately diving into personal attacks when something doesn't go their way. When some of you guys get this angry maybe it's time to step away from the game for a while, or forever.

What seems to be consistent here is a total failure to raise legitimate complaints and concerns to the staff through the proper channels. Report it to staff, articulately, gather proof if possible, and then shut up and stop muddying up the forums. It doesn't help. When no action is taken because nothing happened and you were probably wrong, make a choice between moving on with your life or digging up the same shit publicly for the next 6+ months. One of these choices makes you an asshole and is bad for the server.

Instances of shill bidding, to my eyes, have been incredibly rare. I haven't been active in game but when I played a lot I spent 100% of my time with some of the people who keep getting dragged into these things. As a pretty neutral player, it is painfully obvious to me how full of shit some of the people are who continually try dragging the same 5+/- names through the mud.

The forum doesn't need more moderation just because a bunch of players old enough to know better don't know how to behave when the babysitter isn't looking. UO is a game where the point at which a players commitment level and emotional investment strays into disease territory can be unclear, and it creeps up. The only solution I see is for players to consider whether or not they are contributing to the need for extra moderation, and then moderating the situation themselves by staying off the forums or disappearing from UOR for a while.

I shouldn't really care, I hardly play, but I still like to see what's happening around here on a slow work day or whatever. It sucks that the types of threads we're getting never seem to change.

Ehh, I do assume shenanigans go on plenty. I'm no friend of iDerp but I've done clean business with them and if able will continue to do so.

But, these guys aren't Martin and Lewis hosting the Muscular Dystrophy Telethon. I shed no tears for them. They'll still sell their items just fine. If people are quitting UO because of the trade forum they don't really love the game anyway.

Oh, I'm not saying there are shenanigans. Didn't mean to imply that. I bid on Merlins Keep too and im his friend, my bid was in good faith. Ive bid on friends things and bought them from friends many times in good faith. I think 99+% of the stuff on the trade forums is legit and clean. If i do think somethings off I don't bid.

I wasn't specifically referencing anyone from iderp. My point being, why take an emotional stance at all. Like who cares? This stuff rarely actually affects anyones in game experience.

This is exactly right.

I mean I think there *are* shenanigans that's why I don't really want to see bans for critical commentary. I don't think most sales are shenanigans though, for sure, even most sales conducted on high ticket items involving friends. That said, I'm sure it has, does, and will happen plenty.

There are auctions I won't bid in because I'm skeptical of the legitimacy of some of the bids.
I don't think I've ever once stated that in any of the threads. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

There are auctions I won't bid on because I don't want to give that specific person my money. Never stated that in a thread either.

There are auctions for things that I know are very overpriced, I don't bid, don't state that opinion.

Like I said in my long ass post that the majority of you probably (understandably) skim read, I recently hit over 100 million in auction sales.

I didn't do that from acting like a sucker.

I talk to everyone, I think I've had 1 to 1 conversations with the majority of you here, most of which I've started. Out of no where. Just to engage and talk to people that I play this game with.

I even shot Wylwrk a message about a month back (didn't get a reply) I have NO BEEF.

And any problems I have I handle them in the game. See Covfefe.

I auction a lot of items and houses, I try to make my auctions funny and engaging, I welcome banter and cool shit like Dolphin Discounts for posting a picture of a dolphin, I randomly accept plat at 10k per now and then, I cut people a LOT of deals (which I very rarely publicly state) y'all know about Snotels? Nope, it's houses I place and fill with supplies and items and co own newer players too to macro skills till they're good to go. I run the map and I find villa spots and bigger, mark runes and drop em around Occlo or give em to people. Who saw me on July 4th giving away 100's of fireworks wands with heleneaneanea at the bank? Firing those suckas off with a bunch of newbies. Engaging, having fun, doing cool shit.

My point is, I believe I bring something to the UOR table.

I'm not sayin everyone's gotta <redacted> but god damn my dudes.....relax....enjoy the game, bring something to the table however you see fit, but please, for the love of god, stop bringing your mouldy ass, stale ass, herby ass food to the table. Nobody want to eat that shit.

You collectively worked to devalue Loki's appraisal and auction threads after labeler placed the SB.

The evidence of that has since been mod removed.

Now Merlin holds the bid of 37 mil.

What?

Anyone dare question you, you collectively inundate the area inside and outside (creating new threads). Walls of text fraught with virtue signaling and passive villainization of any opposition quickly assembles.

Report suspect threads? You got to be kidding us. You know nothing comes of it aside from censorship.

Not sure if you've noticed but there's an exodus of the player base happening.

Collectively raising property value isn't helping.
Running players up the flag pole with false bids isn't helping.
Using alt accounts to cover your rep isn't helping.

I do believe you (and friends) have done these things and will continue to do so.

However, abandoning the report feature and raising a red flag publicly seems to do more harm than good. Noted.

Yes, it sure is just a game. I've played this one long enough. Time to play a different one.

G'luck and have fun.

@Earsnot

Fake News j/k

I wasn't at the IDOC but my guild was. Also I did not repeatedly out bid someone else. I was actually the first bidder on the bubbly (my precious) which means he kept outbidding me until he finally tapped out.

Evil told me before the auction went up that I wouldn't win it. He said there is a group of people pitching in to buy it for Aarawn. I let him know I didn't care how many guys were pitching in that I would win it. I don't see that as shill bidding at all. Like you said you and I have done several bids.

I don't care about all this drama. I do recognize that the animated flask auction was controversial. So having said that...I wanted a complete alchemy set with at least 1 animated flask since telamon gave them away year one. One came on the market and I bought it.

Abox

Yes, i hold a bid of 37m - conspiracy/10 please

Are you quitting?

Bart asked me to ask you if he can have some of ur stuff. He said "just a little".

If wylwyrk quits I'm dropping my fortress.

I am blown away every time i read these comments. I have never said or mentioned that you cant bid on friends auctions. Merlins keep auction was the closest to haviong evidence of shill bidding that we will EVER have. Thats why i made such a big deal about it. This is part of that thread, since everyone that keeps talking about friends bidding on friends stuff still do not get it:

http://uorforum.com/threads/selling-merlins-vesper-residence.33309/page-6
Ok, this will be my last post on this.


--Buying a villa near Vesper for 4million is absolute insanity, unless you KNOW a fort can fit there. So that's some bullshit.

--Earsnot will never get Erzas Villa, and he knows that. Which means, he would never have his fort because he has been trying for months.

--Anyone with common sense would be able to recognize wth is going on, if you read every post in this thread.

--They put on a great show, trying to pressure @JohnM into B/O option with his "I ONLY HAVE 29 MILL GUYS" with a NEW B/O set for 30million..hmmmm

-- @Cynic , I buy and bid on stuff from guildies all the time, or used to. But we never used alt forum accounts and lied about it. We never pretended to be someone else. We never shill bid to get our people more money. If merlin really gave a shit and wanted earsnot to have the keep, he would have ended at 25mill before the shit storm. Hell, he could have easily sold privately for 25mill and ended auction. This auction was all about shill bidding, period.

--Again,
1) Earsnot goes after a villa that he knows they NEED to place a fort.
2) is unsuccessful for 3 months.
3) merlin decides to sell the keep (to take a break)
4) Earsnot pretends hes allll in at 18mill+
5) all of a sudden, someone asks if a fort fits!?! OH MAN, HES ALL IN AGAIN AT 25MILL (while smack talking john, trying to coerce john into bidding more.)
(((THEY KNEW A FORT FIT HERE, THAT'S WHY HE WANTED THE VILLA)))
6) HURRY JOHN, BRING YOUR NUTS TO THE TABLE AND BEAT ME, I ONLY HAVE 29MILL AND B/O IS 30MILL....
7) The people got tired of this nonsense and threw in the bullshit flag.
8) After 5 pages of shit talking and exposing of ill will, nothing happens via forums, no one yells at me, and key players are no where to be found (iderp).
9) Air realizes that the "innocent" idoc'ers, left a small house plot open in front of their phony keep for sale...and places a glorious waterfront home.
10) Air decides to try and make a few GP by selling that small waterfront home for a reasonable price. and people get angry.

Earsnot is IDERP and so is Merlin, yet he even lied about that:

"I make absolutely no bones about publicly stating I do IDOCS guy, I start most of my property auctions with the tag line - "got a cop and drop for you" - I think thats pretty self explanatory and obvious homie. I'm not in iderp. I tried, for real, I asked around about iDERP but everyone I asked told me it was dead."

You might not be the original iderp, but you definitely role with those guys on a daily basis and in voice chat.

Moral of the story? This was a poor attempt whatever the hell they were trying to do. I may not be 100% correct about every detail, because every other word out of their mouth is a lie, but there was definitely some fuckery going on here and it needed to be talked about.

I'm done with this thread now, so anyone who wants to chime in and say "gosh guys, you make this server look bad", I have to words for you..."Turd Burger". Because that's what you are. You are unable to read this thread and understand what actually happened. All you see is this poor guy merlin, complaining about his auction that got de-fucking-railed. No longer will I sit quiet and let people take advantage of honest people. Even though this is just a game, people work too damn hard, spend parts of their life working here, for some shit heads to take advantage of them and artificially inflate prices. I will go back to my sitting on the couch at home, thinking of my next devious plan. Cheers.

--Once JohnM got suspicious, and rightfully so, that's when I had a moral obligation to bring this shit show to light. And believe me, there will be more if this continues.