Without the influences of Trammel: A Discussion about Risk within UO:R

Ethereals and blessed runebooks. Keep lying to yourself, it's hilarious.

My two cents worth.

I think part of the problem is that the original intent for many things has been "skipped over" Example: Fortresses were originally intended as guild houses, not single player homes."

The same is true for many other things, Big, bad mean monsters were intended to encourage players to band together to take them out, not one player triple boxing tamers.

This said, everything changes, evolves. I do not have any great ideas for what is fair and what isn't.

I do agree, slayer weapons should spawn in more places than super monsters.

The only idea I have, which isn't super popular one, is limit the number of tamers one account (player) can run during special events and hard monsters spawns.

And I do agree, there should be risks here. We play in fel, not Tram, so crafter or hunter; risks, even if it is someone killing you on your doorstep, or thief at bank snatching items.

Great thread. Great ideas folks.

No, what is hilarious is that you are such a trammie that you don't understand what describing something as trammelized means and you think the word is a weapon you can awkwardly throw around to describe things you don't like. My favorite was when you called pking trammel.

Convenience does not mean trammel. If that were the case I'd be here advocating for spellbooks to drop upon death and recall to not be in the game. In fact I can't think of a time runebooks weren't blessed by default.

Trammel is represented by one major thing - restrictions upon the classic sandbox elements of the game like being unable to attack or steal from a player because they've walked into an invisible safe zone. You now, like the trammel facet. Like our event center and instances and duel arenas. Like the bonding quest and the future treasure map events.

And a trammie mentality is represented by vain crybabies that are more concerned with how administrators can help them play dress up and protect their my little ponies classes and get their way by throwing tantrums on forums like this. Often you can spot them by their neon blessed clothes and garish neon house designs. They have long ago willfully left Lord British's vision for the game and built EA's alternate reality for The Sims. They are knowingly tacky, they are kitsch.

That's Trammel, Blaise. Might as well learn to use the word now. And @Pork Fried Rice you might as well learn it too.

If you read the post above - you can see that while Westra is a nice lady, and not a pk, she's not a trammie. She appreciates the feluccan aspects of the game. Even though she has no desire to rob or kill - she wants to play a UO where there exists that risk for her when she enters the world.

Mes, Trammel as the colloquial definition goes, is the removal or mitigation of risk or loss, not convenience. I have never said I don't take part in things that are inherently Trammel, like you claimed just above.

By your terms, cutting bandages in one cut is Trammel, but not the mount you can never lose or the fatigue it never experiences. Or the runebook you never lose that can get your fresh ressed body into your secure CY at any time. These are fragments of Trammel in a Felucca landscape. Sorry you're in denial.


So if you want to say you're free of Trammel, then rid yourself of the trappings of it and be the man you claim to be.


I have never called PKing Trammel, but I have called the desire for PKs to do so without any risk of justice application, PK Trammel. IE: if you want no statloss for Reds, that's PK Trammel. Removing the risk associated with your behavior or play style. You're getting much worse at paraphrasing me incorrectly to suit your pathetic arguments.

No, you're simply using the word wrong. It means both literally, ie by definition if you google it, and within the UO community - restrictions upon freedom of action.

I have no problem with reds taking stat loss. I enjoy the risk of the game and I wish that it was more difficult to keep them out of statloss (unfortunately having 3 accounts softens the blow by 2/3 for that 99% of pks that work their counts.) But removing stat loss wouldn't be creating trammel. Stat loss was obviously implemented to discourage murdering to protect the first generations of whining trammies that couldn't be assed to keep their wits about them while dealing with strangers or while exploring outside of towns.

That's the finer point of colloquialism. It's not restricted by what Mes finds on google when making rebuttals to support the removal of risk that he prefers on nearly every character he plays.

Everyone knows that the things that make this game more candy ass, are bits of Trammel. Ethereals and blessed runebooks included. If you don't feel that way, no worries. Those who do don't care any more than I do, how silly that makes you sound, will not lose sleep over it.

Yeah I'm sure you're part of some ultra elite clique of pompous nerds that understands some truer definition of trammel than the facet where you could no longer attack or steal from players.

I'm not an admin but I'll weigh in anyway. Well said. The imbalance is clearly there. I think the great thing about UO is the risk itself, even if it stings a little when you come out on the losing end. All groups should be able to feel some degree of pain for without that risk nothing has truly been accomplished. I look forward to reading a lot more people arguing about this and to see if it goes anywhere.

every thread resorts to a bitch fight between 2 grown men using big word and google definitions in an attempt to scream out "I am educated" lol

And then Russell comes in and tries to act like he's not historically one of the biggest tantrum throwers in uor history

And Blaise, why are you so worried about what is and isn't Trammel? You don't even Felucca

60k/hour is what i make on my tamer who i run with 30-50 ea reg and in nothing more than a death robe.

this is exactly what i told telamon when he told me about the bonding quest. i worried that he was destroying the dragon market.

he told me it would take a group of players 6 months to complete a quest and that there would be a thriving market for well-trained pets.
i think it took sl one or two weeks. there are multiple people on the server with > 20 bonding slots on one or more characters.

the pet bonding quest is the obamacare of UOR, except in a tyranny there is no one with the power to repeal it.

Want risk for tamers?
This is how you do it:

1) Nerf dragon fire breath. This has the added advantage of tamers no longer being able to one shot people.
2) Increase the effect of stats on melee and spell damage, bringing the damage of a well trained pet up to what it would be before the firebreath nerf.
3) Increase the amount of pet statloss on death.

That way it's actually meaningful when your pet dies. And at the same time it fixes an easily abused pvp issue.

This doesn't fix the issues with the taming market that lib spoke about, but I can't think of a good way to do that without taking bonding slots away. I don't think that's ever going to happen.

What if you just made PVP optional? I.E if you don't want to opt out and just play the game the way you want to. But once that choice is made you cant change back on the entire account.

I sure as hell would be down for that

There was a place where pvp was optional on OSI, it was called Trammel

It'd solve the problem, nobody would give two shits about bonding if you could be perma young status as a once off choice.

It's not like people are using high end slayers outside trammel instances anyway.

The only outcome is that people could actually play the way they wanted.

NOT having a pvp consent choice is the actual thing limiting playstyles.

oh yeah
Two more thoughts:

1) I don't like it when people act like there are classes. There are no classes, only skills. There is no dexer vs tamer, you are all the same characters with the same options available to you.

2) Like it or not, change is coming. Triple boxed tamers is the new meta, and lots of people are currently working their second and third tamer so that they can hop on the train. It's going to get a lot worse even if nothing is done.

You are literally asking for Trammel here. I don't think anyone is going to agree with that as this server is marketed as being without the influence of Trammel