Patch 84 - October 23rd, Happy Halloween, Night of Horrors Expansion!

Verrrrrrryyyyy clever!

Into it.

I'm assuming this is for cotton primarily?
What other resources are affected? (not that it matters to me - just intrigued)

Don't forget about mining @Earsnot

I don't understand this fix. You're essentially removing an item from the game to make pvm a little harder? If you can't stack them what use are they? They give no player(s) any unfair advantage because anyone can freely use them.

You can always just throw a keg of explosion pots instead.

I guess I just don't see what problem your attempting to fix. I think we should just leave those alone.

I agree with Ahirman. Why would you need to remove the stacking effect, when the delay timer can be adjusted for balance reasons (e.g. decreasing dmg dealt over time)?
Without the stacking, the fire bomb becomes completely useless.

Are these impacting the server so much that they warrant patching? Razor-assisted or otherwise, within the realm of PvM there are numerous ways to achieve long-range, high-damage output over short periods of time. This one seems oddly specific and I can’t help but assume this propsosal is a direct response to help quell the masses who routinely picket efficiency.

I'm always confused by the things we address on patches..

I wish we could get some fixes done that the community requests.

One example is tracking... wish that was on here.

Tracking is on the way. That's been stated a few times, the dungeon regions need manual tile by tile fixing to ensure no return to the previous problem which is a huge, tedious job and likely best left to the person who knows exactly where all the exploiting was going on.
Im sure people have seen this written.

*pops on the devils advocate cap*

There is a possibility here, which is where I went immediately after reading these responses and struggling to find an obvious reason either, that, it may not be in response to anything.

It could as easily be in preparation for something coming up in the immediate future, which means this would be 100% required.
New halloween dungeon? Possibly there's an easily exploitable encounter using these? (packs of low hp mobs?)

Maybe there are some mobs in said dungeon launching them en mass at players? That'd be an entertaining thing to see reverted just as you all ran it

*removes cap*

I hope that is relevant! I enjoy both these thoughts

The point remains though; everything written is speculation immediately down the negative route. I don't like that pattern that I often I see here.

Maybe reason in patch notes would've helped? Methinks it would've ruined a surprise.

I do love speculation

A reason would be great, if for nothing else than transparency.

@OptimisticSam I can't disagree with that, except in the cases of revealing new content early through notes, or, exposing concepts that might be reworked in the future by new or old trouble makers.

I didn't mention, maybe some type of town killing was going on? A couple toons and a few firebombs... *shrug*

You are correct though, knowing why is what drives me... Question Everying, Ignorance is Boring, etc. etc.

Couldn't you just make them not work in guard zone kinda like poison was for a while? I thought most people just dropped a poison field on afk players in town.

Certainly could. Just a random thought - and only that much as I saw someone talking about them + dying in a discord server.

It's funny how most people don't know about firebombs but we're putting energy into changing them.

Wish that energy was put into real issues.

@Chris thanks for sharing this info I hope we can use this thread as a conversation!

I believe this adresses heavy Firebomb usage in order to kill champs with certain methods ...

Ive seen them beeing used in crazy ways for that reason before.
Theyr efficiency is amazing and exceeds a lot of regular methods - if applied in the right way and in the hundreds

Right when I was going to stir the pot...

*backs away slowly*

+1 for Anti-Shiftery/Unintended use patches though.

Make using firebombs a criminal act. That would result in insta-guardwhack if used in towns. Also the fields do not do dmg if the thrower is dead, so even that 1 firebomb thrown before guardwhack would not result in any damage to any players it was thrown at. If this happened in lets say buc's den, or out of guard zone elsewhere, any victims would receive a murder gump as well so there are consequences.

The reason for keeping these as is for me is 2 fold. This game is a sandbox and if we nerf every out of the box usage of mechanics, we are effectively taking sand out. The practical application of firebombs is extremely limited as is, and in my humble opinion add a layer to the game. They are a tool in the toolbelt of champers and having access to these tools allow for more options both when raiding enemy champs, or when defending against raids. When PWN was in its infancy, we were often set against superior forces with more pvp prowess then ourselves. But we were often able to overcome this adversity by our superior mechanical knowledge and our wide array of tools at our fingertips.
To take these tools away from up and coming champers seems very unfair. I do not see how they will be able to survive being smaller crews once we take away all their options for dealing with being raided. To be clear, there are built in consequences to using firebombs and other techniques. At the benefit of speed, you limit the plat payout to 1 person. Instead of everyone getting a piece of the boss plat, only the firebomber would get paid. It also only works in very select situations with select bosses, so its not a once size fits all glove.
Then for harrowers, it would unarguably make them harder, which is cool and all, but seems again unfair to up and coming groups. So we let some groups do >125 harrowers using firebombs to shave off time, but from here on out make it harder for anyone else.
Part of the amazing UO journey is figuring out better ways to perfect your craft and that is something PWN prides itself in doing. To prevent others from following in our footsteps and taking the same journey seems a shame.
Again to be clear, this is NOT by any means a game breaker change if it were to be implemented. We will adapt just fine, as we have always done, but it truly does seem a shame to simplify the complexity that is advanced champion spawn tactics. And it seems unfair to all those that come after us to be hampered by said changes. If town killing is truly the issue, as suggested, making the firebombs a criminal act seems like a better solution imo.

To give you a specific example of how this actually plays out, last I remember using them we were raided by a bunch of pks, we were able to hold them off via chokepoints but this was not sustainable. There seemed no way to actually engage the boss while defending at the same time, the distraction of the boss would have provided more then ample opening for us to be overtaken. So we instead made the decision to peel 1 person off of defense to first teleport the boss onto a single tile nook, then firebomb it to secure the skull. Our defenses crumbled right as the boss finished being killed. We got the skull, nobody got any plat, but we were able to secure what we came for.

Would it be possible to energy wall " X " a sosarian, then/while stacking fire bombs on them?